Kids in meetings

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clouds
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by clouds »

Ya know, I don't like to bring everybody down but my experience is maybe worth mentioning. Through listening to 5th steps and getting to know AA people I know of at least 8 people in AA, some aren't still sober today I don't think, that admitted to me or I knew first hand from a wife or child who had been abused, that these 8 people are child molesters who were never caught or taken to court, or the court didn't get a conviction.

These people freely went to meetings and to an Alano Club where moms and their kids hung out all the time. These people were not known to be offenders and had access to children at any time they chose.

Be very careful taking your children to alano clubs or meetings. Offenders are masters at keeping themselves looking innocent.

Once its happened, the child's mind and life is really messed up. No amount of therapy really cures this stuff, its poison. Neither the offender or the victim can come away from an event ok.
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avaneesh912
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by avaneesh912 »

I just want to give my thoughts on the subject and maybe get some input from different people.
My suggestion would be to have a non-confrontational genuine discussion with your ex and bring up your concerns. If you still cant reconcile and you think what she is doing is right, you will have to go through your laywer. Sometimes, when we convey our position in a non-argumentative way, the other side my come down and consider our view point.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
Ruready 60
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by Ruready 60 »

avaneesh912 wrote:
I just want to give my thoughts on the subject and maybe get some input from different people.
My suggestion would be to have a non-confrontational genuine discussion with your ex and bring up your concerns. If you still cant reconcile and you think what she is doing is right, you will have to go through your laywer. Sometimes, when we convey our position in a non-argumentative way, the other side my come down and consider our view point.
I always heard that u cant control the way people treat u but u can control the way u act towards that treatment. I don't handle dumb as-ses to well and to put ur child in danger of some freak when u have a babysitter is nonsense and purely selfisnish. One guy on here said that he enjoyed fishing with the groups and camping trips. No thank you this sounds as though he likes these things to much. His child welfare is put second behind his love for these things. If he wants to befriend people from AA hey I think that's great but it should not be brought home and the child should not be involved. Theirs enough in this world to worry about with adding to it our children welfare should come first......................................................................thanks for ur input
Ruready 60
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by Ruready 60 »

clouds wrote:Ya know, I don't like to bring everybody down but my experience is maybe worth mentioning. Through listening to 5th steps and getting to know AA people I know of at least 8 people in AA, some aren't still sober today I don't think, that admitted to me or I knew first hand from a wife or child who had been abused, that these 8 people are child molesters who were never caught or taken to court, or the court didn't get a conviction.

These people freely went to meetings and to an Alano Club where moms and their kids hung out all the time. These people were not known to be offenders and had access to children at any time they chose.

Be very careful taking your children to alano clubs or meetings. Offenders are masters at keeping themselves looking innocent.

Once its happened, the child's mind and life is really messed up. No amount of therapy really cures this stuff, its poison. Neither the offender or the victim can come away from an event ok.
Thanks I agree some people have to see it to believe it though and that's when I"m sorry really doesn't help. When a child has been molested its to late , Is it really that hard to understand. My son is laying next to right now sleeping and he told me that my ex and him go every night. Its really sad being his older sister who is 33 is now moved back in with their mother and him and could watch him also while she attended the meetings. Not to mention the late nights to bed the lack of sleep selfish people
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ezdzit247
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by ezdzit247 »

Ruready 60 wrote:
If you believe your ex-wife is putting your son in danger by taking him to AA meetings, I would suggest you file a complaint with your county child-protective services and request that they investigate your allegations. If that agency finds any evidence that supports your theory on what constitutes child endangerment, they will intervene with a court order and remove the child from your ex's custody. Good luck.
See that is one thing I could do but doesn't it seem easier for the woman to just leave our child with his dad instead of making a big deal out of it. Im in the process of trying to get something done hell she has a drug problem anyway she should be at NA but the boyfriend goes to AA. thanks for the advice u have helped
From what you've posted so far, it doesn't appear to be your wife who is "making a big deal out of it". You are. Have you asked your son whether or not he likes going to AA meetings with his mom? Have you asked him whether or not he would prefer to spend time with you instead of going to mommy's meetings?

Involving CPS in your dispute with your ex wife is called a "nuclear option" and if you attempt to use this option as leverage to bully your ex wife into doing things your way, it could blow up in your face, not hers. If you choose to use this option to file a complaint without any evidence that any child endangerment has actually occurred, it could blow up in your face, not hers. There are better options, better ways of dealing with your present dispute and all future disputes with your ex wife regarding how to raise your son. Your chances of convincing the CPS, or a judge, that your wife is endangering your child by taking him to an AA meetings are about the same as convincing either that your wife is endangering your child by taking him shopping at a mall, or to a park, or skating rink, library, movie theater or any other public where child molesters are known to frequent. I would suggest you tread lightly and choose your options wisely....
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PaigeB
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by PaigeB »

If she has the child with her during the meeting what is the problem? NO ONE is going to lay hands on her or her child... around here, fellas stay well back from the women before and after the meetings. If I see a new gal, you can bet this old (woman) bar brawler will make sure no ill character of any gender, or of any crime, gets too close! :wink:

I think kids in meeting are just fine. We are off the topic a bit here with what else to do.. maybe investigate the new boyfriend and provide that info to the attorney of record. I agree about involving NOT CPS... they will investigate you and your family and job and girlfriends as well as hers. In Iowa the judge is always more likely to give custody to the parent who is most amenable to visitation and cooperation with the other parent. THAT is what they consider is in the best interest of the child. As well as sober parents and Judges have a pretty good opinion of AA too.

In the end it is a personal decision, not related to alcohol or to AA really.
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D'oh
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by D'oh »

Ruready 60 wrote:
I always heard that u cant control the way people treat u but u can control the way u act towards that treatment. I don't handle dumb as-ses to well and to put ur child in danger of some freak when u have a babysitter is nonsense and purely selfisnish. One guy on here said that he enjoyed fishing with the groups and camping trips. No thank you this sounds as though he likes these things to much. His child welfare is put second behind his love for these things. If he wants to befriend people from AA hey I think that's great but it should not be brought home and the child should not be involved. Theirs enough in this world to worry about with adding to it our children welfare should come first......................................................................thanks for ur input
I think that you need a way to handle your resentments and leave your child out of it. Hopefully for their sake at least.

From what you say it seems that AA and Bait Shops hold all of the pervs in the world. Or if not, the kids should be locked in their rooms for fear that something would happen.

I would be more wary for the safety of my child in Public Transit, Parks, Schools, Streets, Amusement Parks, well pretty much everywhere else but at an AA meeting. 99% of the people there would not let any harm come to a child, in or out of a meeting. Including your Exe. Which is partly why I am typing this, as harsh as it is or maybe it is because I don't handle ( Edited by Moderator) to well. I will have to sort that out before going to sleep tonight.
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tyg
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by tyg »

This is a great topic, let us remember the 12 Traditions and discuss this issue keeping Unity, among us.
12 Traditions checklist at: http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-131_en.pdf
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by Lali »

Ruready, you seem to be looking for stuff to bring into court against your ex. I don't see any problem with an 8 year old going to bed at 9:00. In alcoholic homes, and I'm wondering if it was the same with you and your ex, the children have more sleepless nights over their parents fighting than anything else. (I was one of those children that heard my parents fight all night.) EDITED to add: You might want to look into when your child's grades actually started going down.

And as someone else here has said, you need to pick your battles when you go to court, because a judge can often see right through battling exes, and you don't want to piss off the judge.
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Hiccup
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by Hiccup »

I would rather my ex take my child to an AA meeting than have his buddies round drinking and taking drugs, but this is just one single mothers opinion.

My reality is that my ex hasn't been around for 14 years except to step in and tell me when I am parenting incorrectly - but lacks the ability to step up and parent for himself and it is heartbreaking.

10 years ago at 4 my kid went to meetings with me. They were not dark shady rooms with glum depressed people.. they were church rooms with cookies and refreshments and a table my kid sat at and colored and listened to music on their headphones at. 8 year olds of today in meetings are literally sat there next to mom watching Netflix on their iPad. You painted a dark shady room where predators jump from the corners and I think anyone who has actually been abused or molested or raped can just step right in...and give a little headshake for you and reassure you that sitting in a room for an hour to keep mom sober is not the worst fate. And nobody can control who their ex dates. They once dated us....
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by Still_Sober »

My guess is that the posters have complicated the hell out of a simple topic.

The traditions on anonymity would have kids NOWHERE near meetings, but anonymity is not as important as it once was because of current law and that alcoholism is not the stigma it once was.

Still, kids should never be at least in earshot of meetings particularly because of what they might hear that might harm them!

Nonetheless, I saw a father with a dangerous pit bull and a young kid at an outdoor meeting last week. This AA member claimed that I ignored the dog growling at me and with his hair standing on end and had to inform me in his share. I spent a lot of my life around German Shepherd pure and mix breeds, I know growling when I hear it.

Inappropriate shares is another topic.

I say keep the kidz and dogs away from the meeting proper if for no other reason than it is good parenting and responsible dog ownership!

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Patsy©
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Re: Kids in meetings

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I will be forever grateful that I brought my two children to AA meetings with me. Those AA members told me the truth, that they would much rather see my two kids at the AA meeting, then have my two kids deal with a drunken hungover mother. SO TRUE!

My daughter was 5 months old and my son was 5 years old when I got sober. My daughter is now 32 years old and 2 years ago she knew exactly where to go when she lost the ability to choose to not drink. She will be 2 years sober on Oct. 2nd.

My son just graduated from Johns Hopkins University with his PhD in Computer Science. I remember him asking me about his own drinking when he was in high school and he made the decision to just not drink, because he still had the ability to choose to not drink.

Again, thank you God that I was allowed to not only bring my 2 kids to AA meetings, my 2 kids were treated with cookies, milk, coloring books, and they met other kids whose parents were AA members. My two kids are now grown adults with lives of their own, but they never forgot coming to those AA meetings. My son presented me with my 32 year medallion at my AA home group. What a gift it was and is to be able to be the mother that I was never able to be when I was drinking and drunk. Thank you God, AA, and all of you AA members for showing me a life, second to none!


Page 141 in the Twelve & Twelve:

"Why did we dare to say, contrary to the experience of society and government everywhere, that we would neither punish nor deprive any A.A. of membership, that we must never compel anyone to pay anything, believe anything, or conform to anything?

The answer, now seen in Tradition Three, was simplicity itself. At last experience taught us that to take away any alcoholic's full chance was sometimes to pronounce his death sentence, and often to condemn him to endless misery. Who dared to be judge, jury, and executioner of his own sick brother?"
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by Still_Sober »

There seems to be some confusion over putting our kids in meetings and bringing them along to meetings and putting them in a nearby room.

I have done the latter. Just like we don't "selfishly" make direct amends when it would hurt others, we don't "selfishly" drive away newcomers who may suffer needlessly for a much longer time or die from alcoholism and we don't "selfishly" expose our children to our worst behavior and that of others and expose them to our current problems that we would otherwise hide from them for their own good.

I can't see where a responsible parent or a sober alcoholic would feel otherwise. =wink

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Patsy©
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Re: Kids in meetings

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I can't see where a responsible parent or a sober alcoholic would feel otherwise. =wink

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I am a responsible sober parent who brought my two children up and I was a single mom. I have been sober by The Grace of God for 32 years and if I decide that I can't reach out and help another women or man who needs to bring their children to AA meetings, who wants to stay sober....then shame on me. The way I see it, if kids can watch their mother or father get drunk in the same room, then they can watch mother or father get sober one day at a time, in the same room. It may be different for different folks, but for this alcoholic, I will go to any length to help another alcoholic to achieve sobriety, after-all, that is what these wonderful AA members did for this alcoholic and my children reaped the benefits immensely.

When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there. And for that: I am responsible."

Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
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Re: Kids in meetings

Post by Still_Sober »

Patsy© wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:48 am
Page 141 in the Twelve & Twelve:

"Why did we dare to say, contrary to the experience of society and government everywhere, that we would neither punish nor deprive any A.A. of membership, that we must never compel anyone to pay anything, believe anything, or conform to anything?

The answer, now seen in Tradition Three, was simplicity itself. At last experience taught us that to take away any alcoholic's full chance was sometimes to pronounce his death sentence, and often to condemn him to endless misery. Who dared to be judge, jury, and executioner of his own sick brother?"
Did you ever consider that you may have driven away a newcomer who was uncomfortable having children in the meeting room who then suffered needlessly or died of alcoholism because you brought your children to a closed meeting where they didn't belong?

Medically alcoholism manifests over a long period of time while many other narcotics don't. So if you were young enough to have young kids...

Before you cite the short form of Tradition Three, Bill modified it in the 12&12 when he said AA is for "serious drinkers." And then the long form from which the short form was condensed from specifically says that AA is for "alcoholics." And logically all the Traditions long and short, including the Fifth and Tenth Traditions, must be true simultaneously.

Otherwise, there are solutions to dealing with sobriety and kids, but taking them to closed meetings in any 12-step program is not one of them and violates the program's principles.

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