How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Most of us who recovered with AA's program did so with the help of a "sponsor". But what is sponsorship? How do I get one? Who can be a sponsor? What makes a good sponsor?
Buckeye1988
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Buckeye1988 »

Hello, I replied to a discussion about the origins of sponsorship here in reply to the posted question and felt like I left some pretty straight forward simple information with a link to back it up although the link isn't approved, still the content was and I appreciate that.

Then I see all these other replies today that seem to be a huge argument between yourselves yet no reference from anyone about to the simple information that I posted. Isn't this a pretty good explanation of how sponsorship was originated in AA?

Why does it have to be turned into a religious rant about marriage partners or a Bible thumping sermon about winners vs losers with scripture verses that aren't even in context.

This is a damn verse about people who believe in the existence of God vs those who don't. Has NOTHING to do with the topic. Yet you write a disclaimer so that you can step over anyone who disagrees with you like a pile of dog crap. Wow. People who can't tolerate or respect other people's points of view or receive new information are along the lines of destructive cult members. So while I won't go so far as to think of you as a pile of dog crap I do consider your reply to be from a person who wears blinders and is hostile to anyone outside your cultish thinking.

As far as your winners vs losers reference I hear this around AA and it's sad. We aren't going to always be winners. We aren't always going to be losers. This is what's called Sportsmanship. Early AA was into sportsmanship. They were against Bigshotism. Stick with the winners is a form of Bigshotism in AA that we as a fellowship can do without.
Buckeye1988
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Buckeye1988 »

Who the heck is being referred to as suckers here?? I don't get the purpose behind all the callous, condescending tones either.
Molgzonor
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:14 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Molgzonor »

That's a pretty wild distortion of a conversation to fit a grudge list you had before anyone said anything. Maybe if we've disturbed you that much, remember the spiritual axiom about when people upset you and talk to your sponsor about it.

I see what you mean about your personality didn't mesh with sponsorship. IDK man, whatever floats your boat but as for me when I got to AA, my personality was killing me.
Buckeye1988
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Buckeye1988 »

"That’s pretty typical modern AA thinking, yet here I am 12 years later."

I love this!
Buckeye1988
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Buckeye1988 »

Molgono

Who the heck are you referring to? I never started this post or said my personality didn't mesh with sponsorship. I think your confused. As far as the spiritual axiom goes about being disturbed, all I'm asking for is clarification on your pile of dog crap comment. And sure when I'm disturbed there is something wrong with me. Lol that's like saying when I don't feel well maybe I have a cold.
Molgzonor
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:14 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Molgzonor »

Yeah like I said in re:PM think I got you mixed up with the other guy, apologies and also hope you get feeling better. I'm no good at this forum stuff but oh well.
Buckeye1988
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Buckeye1988 »

Cmon your a Forums Enthusiast. Your good at. And I feel fine, as I said in the PM. Never said I didn't.
Last edited by Buckeye1988 on Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Buckeye1988
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Buckeye1988 »

I'm starting to feel sick now though. Not sure why I have to question the status quo of the AA fellowship or current program? Maybe it's because it resembles nothing at all what's inside the AA book? But oh well.

I've had enough of banging my head against the wall tonight.

Goodnight!
User avatar
PaigeB
Trusted Servant
Posts: 9532
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:28 pm
Location: Iowa USA

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by PaigeB »

Molgzonor wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:17 pm Also sorry suckers suckered me into replying to a year old OP.
Buckeye1988 wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:50 pm Who the heck is being referred to as suckers here?? I don't get the purpose behind all the callous, condescending tones either.
Perhaps I can help - It appears Molgzonor wrote the Original Poster a year later, almost to the day. This is a long way prior to the first post of Buck and likely had nothing to do with Buck or anyone... I think maybe just referring to the strange workings of an HP.

Let it dissipate into the air and blow away the rest with a breath of kindness.
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB
innermost
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 3:12 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by innermost »

Here are some basic ideas and concepts concerning our AA program and sponsorship.
HOW IT WORKS
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has
thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not
recover are people who cannot or will not completely
give themselves to this simple program, usually men
and women who are constitutionally incapable of be­
ing honest with themselves. There are such unfortu­
nates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been
born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasp­
ing and developing a manner of living which demands
rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional
and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if
they have the capacity to be honest.
Clearly Honesty,Honesty and rigorous Honesty is highlighted for success in recovery.

I'll add some more ideas for an example of how our AA program suggests that it works.
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the
agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after
make clear three pertinent ideas: (a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage
our own lives. (b) That probably no human power could have re­
lieved our alcoholism
. (c) That God could and would if He were sought.
Sponsorship is a beautiful thing and it can turn ugly.
Sponsorship is not a requirement in our simple program for staying sober.
The first 164 pg. is the program!
User avatar
Brock
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 5106
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Brock »

Molgzonor said -
To just write off sponsorship as some artificial 'modern AA' artifact and equate it to chasing a 'human power to relieve our alcoholism' I flat out say is an irresponsible mischaracterization but hey I'm callous, condescending, and cultish so what do I know.
Nobody has written off sponsorship, in fact in my post I said – “Both here and in live situations I always advise newcomers to have a sponsor…” That is mainly because most folks do benefit from someone showing them the steps, or having someone to discuss ‘life problems’ with, maybe I am just not like most folks, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I have had the experience of asking someone to sponsor me, and he sent a list of prayers with instructions on which ones to say in the morning, at lunchtime, and at night. But I said, ‘I am quite a religious fellow and have prayers of my own,’ to which he replied with the words which are the main thing that spoils sponsorship in many cases – “That’s the way my sponsor showed me, that’s the way you have to do it.” No thought to making allowance because all cases are not the same, the old ‘one size fits all.’ And having been on these forums for a number of years, I can say one of its best uses is that newcomers feel able to ask anonymously if their sponsor is ‘good or bad.’ There are many times responders here have quickly advised them to find another sponsor, I felt a little sick the day someone asked if it’s OK to take a year on step four as her sponsor says to do, nobody asked, but I will bet my life her sponsors' sponsor did the same with her, and maybe being an evening wine sipping so-called ‘alcoholic,’ she was quite OK in taking a year on the step, something which would have spoiled most real alcoholics chances.

I know it’s not the topic, but even your closeness to “…my tight-knit group, my pastor, my closer friends…” that’s fine if it works for you, it’s just maybe not for everybody. I sometimes get on my soapbox regarding this ‘meeting makers make it’ nonsense, because those who are so involved in meetings usually give the impression that attending meetings are vital to happy sobriety even after we do the steps. Many folks don’t too much like when I quote the well-respected old-timer Clancy from one of his talks – “I don’t go to meetings to stay sober, and I am sorry for those who do.” Now please don’t say I am ill speaking meetings because I am not, I will ill speak the idea which has gained momentum in the recent years, of everybody wanting emotional support animals and groups, because they lump AA into that and look on meetings as a support group, and not just for teaching the steps, (and support while doing so), as it surely was intended. I have no need to discuss anything personal with anyone but my wife and God, and this has made myself and my wife closer, and given me an on-fire spiritual path which also involves the AA advice of ‘many helpful books.’ I am sure my spirituality would not have been as strong if I chose to depend on mere humans.

In closing, let me say that in my opinion these are called ‘discussion forums’ for a reason, if everyone agreed with what everyone else said it would not be much of a discussion. It all goes sideways when we start thinking our way is the only way, and not see the ‘many paths up the mountain.’
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
Buckeye1988
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Buckeye1988 »

I need to make a formal apology for my overreacting and callousness toward others here. Because I had posted a comment but it was not approved right away it looked like it had posted and others were referring to it and me. :roll:
User avatar
PaigeB
Trusted Servant
Posts: 9532
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:28 pm
Location: Iowa USA

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by PaigeB »

Buckeye1988 wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:36 pm I need to make a formal apology for my overreacting and callousness toward others here. Because I had posted a comment but it was not approved right away it looked like it had posted and others were referring to it and me. :roll:
Ahhhh - I thought the timing of that post was "off". Thank you for your honesty.
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB
Molgzonor
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:14 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Molgzonor »

I apologize too, for my insensitive remarks, and withdraw my involvement here as I am not a very spiritual person and will enthusiastically be insensitive again. Restraint of tongue and pen does not and probably will never extend to the keyboard for me and I can't be bothered to worry about it. Matter of fact not even sure it makes top 20 on my defects list. (Unless you use the simplified classifications in which inconsideration is the oft overlooked defect after the first 4) Leave it to the younger generations. See yall face to face in the meetings and God bless.
Buckeye1988
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Re: How much is Sponsorship from the Founders/Early Pioneers and how much is accretion?

Post by Buckeye1988 »

Molgzonor,

Seriously? Man I thought you had some good writings. Especially the post where you talked about being centered in the morning first and foremost. I think you were driving to a job site that day?

I made a mistake because I felt attacked and that wasn't even the case, but I retaliated. I could have handled things better. I won't be on here much longer anyway. Going back to school. So, I apologize. Your words are needed here as far as I can tell and you have a deep spirituality. I can tell.

Otherwise you would have went off on me big time. I know from experience!

Here is a Kool poem I heard on a AA speaker tape from back in the 40s. I forget who it was that spoke.

Prayer of a sportsman

Dear Lord, in the battle that goes on through life
I ask but a field that is fair,
A chance that is equal with all in the strife,
A courage to strive and to dare;

And if should win, let it be by the code
With my faith and my honor held high;
And if I should lose, let me stand by the road,
And cheer as the winners go by.

And Lord, may my shouts be ungrudging and clear,
A tribute that comes from the heart,
And let me not cherish a snarl or a sneer
Or play any sniveling part;

Let me say, "There they ride, on whom laurel's bestowed
Since they played the game better than I."
Let me stand with a smile by the side of the road,
And cheer as the winners go by.

So grant me to conquer, if conquer I can,
By proving my worth in the fray,
But teach me to lose like a regular man,
And not like a craven, I pray;

Let me take off my hat to the warriors who strode
To victory splendid and high,
Yea, teach me to stand by the side of the road
And cheer as the winners go by.

Author: Berton Braley
Post Reply