God/Higher Power

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Brock
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by Brock »

Lee S wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:11 am

I don’t hide these facts from anyone in the rooms and I don’t use or say things that would lead anyone to think that I work anything other then a secular program.
I do this mostly for the newcomer who might feel unwelcome or put off with all the god talk, and I do it for all others to help them understand, that yes! It is possible to recover without a god or higher power.
Welcome here Lee.

I was not put off by that talk, nobody said I had to go to church, and the book does not even say we kneel down, the accent was always on finding a higher power of your own choosing. But I agree in saying things which help the newcomer not to be put off, because there were a couple of other things which put me off, and nobody said things which put my mind at ease.

The main one was the meeting makers make it nonsense, and seeing the same faces at every meeting, saying how many years they were sober. Then of course every newcomer gets the impression, that it requires regular meetings for life, I have never met a newcomer who enjoys the meetings when they first walk in, and this wrong impression of it being a life sentence can be greatly off putting. In my case, I was lucky to meet one old timer who only came once a week, and he set me on the right path, as did a talk I heard by Clancy, a well known old timer and AA speaker, he said, ‘I don’t go to meetings to stay sober, and I am sorry for those who do.’ So I also say things to try and reassure the newcomer, that after they do the steps, meetings become more a personal choice than a need.

The thing is, I find those who accept the idea of a higher power, and work on their spirituality, are the ones who don’t miss meetings, when they either simply don’t feel like going, or in unfortunate times like these, when there are no live meetings available. I am strong in my opinion, that once we do the steps, meetings cease being a support group, we don’t lean on or depend on human beings, those who don’t have something higher than a human to lean on, I suspect may find things more difficult at times like these.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

retired baker
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by retired baker »

DaveP1951 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:25 am
My name is Dave and I am an alcoholic. I am new to this group although I am not new to recovery. I decided to give online recovery a try to supplement my once a week face to face group. So here is my question "For those of you who have been sober for a while, in looking back over your sobriety, how much of your sobriety do you attribute to a belief in a Higher Power/God?
anyone can get dried out without God.
I did it for 5 years and was stark raving sober, ready to kill myself.
Step two doesn't mention not drinking, it talks about restoration to sanity.
Sober ain't even half of it.
Recovery from the sheer insane obsession is what God does.

Relying on a meeting, well a room full of 100 AA's adds up to human power. Its not enough.
The steps don't produce faith in God, plenty of AA's walk in with faith.....the result of the steps is conscious contact with God.
That variety of faith is experiential....far more real than blind faith.

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PaigeB
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Re: God/Higher Power

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Stassity wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:37 pm
I work in a partnership with God in all areas of my life. He holds my sobriety. I seek guidance from God everyday. This all goes hand in hand with step 3 for me. I will never have to deal with anything in life alone, ever again. I tried holding my own sobriety and did a pretty good job for 17 years but relapsed because of the absence of a working relationship with the God of my understanding. Peace to you in your search for truth in your sobriety.
Welcome back to sober living. I hope you find what you need. I didn't know what I was looking for until I found IT!
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

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Layne
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by Layne »

PaigeB wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:41 pm
I hope you find what you need. I didn't know what I was looking for until I found IT!
I may not know much much, but I know exactly what you mean. :~)
What you seek is seeking you — Rumi

Soberguy27
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by Soberguy27 »

It is possible to get and stay sober without a God or higher power And be happy and live a meaningful life. I've been doing it for 30 years now. Now for those who chose the path of faith and it works for them then great but people are becoming more and more secular these days so people need to know that you can get sober in aa without God. Now I have no issues with people of faith and religion and I believe there are many paths and each person has to find theirs.
I am one who also believes the BB is outdated and needs to be updated. Now many don't want it to change but we're are now in the 21st century and this isn't 1935. I would keep the first 165 pages the same but changing the chapter we agnostics to reflect and acknowledge that many are non believers and although they may need to find path that is more suitable for them, recovery is still possible. Currently the chapter we agnostics doesn't offer a solution for the agnostic other than not being agnostic and becoming a believer. Also maybe adding a newer doctors opinion, one that is more current with today's studies on recovery. We can no longer just pray things away.
The BB says we still yet know little and that more will be revealed. We'll, much more has been revealed especially about recovery.

I believes aa needs to start acknowledging that.

retired baker
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by retired baker »

content without context is a pretext to a textproof.

Theo50
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by Theo50 »

retired baker wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:34 am
content without context is a pretext to a textproof.
???

Theo50
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by Theo50 »

Soberguy27 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:53 pm
It is possible to get and stay sober without a God or higher power And be happy and live a meaningful life. I've been doing it for 30 years now. Now for those who chose the path of faith and it works for them then great but people are becoming more and more secular these days so people need to know that you can get sober in aa without God. Now I have no issues with people of faith and religion and I believe there are many paths and each person has to find theirs.
I am one who also believes the BB is outdated and needs to be updated. Now many don't want it to change but we're are now in the 21st century and this isn't 1935. I would keep the first 165 pages the same but changing the chapter we agnostics to reflect and acknowledge that many are non believers and although they may need to find path that is more suitable for them, recovery is still possible. Currently the chapter we agnostics doesn't offer a solution for the agnostic other than not being agnostic and becoming a believer. Also maybe adding a newer doctors opinion, one that is more current with today's studies on recovery. We can no longer just pray things away.
The BB says we still yet know little and that more will be revealed. We'll, much more has been revealed especially about recovery.

I believes aa needs to start acknowledging that.
I have also mentioned things about the AA BB being outdated but I think you will be hard pressed to get the majority of AA members to agree with this. Change is hard for people.
I would be very interested in hearing more details of how you approach sobriety without God/ HP. I have struggled with the concept of God/HP but continue to approach my AA program with a willingness to allow the possibility that I may get to a understanding of a God/HP and turning my life over. Until that time comes, I hope to be able to continue to manage my sobriety as I have been for just about 3 years now.

retired baker
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by retired baker »

How would you know if its outdated if you haven't tried it.

Soberguy27
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by Soberguy27 »

How would you know if its outdated if you haven't tried it.

I have tried it and I am still sober.
See, at least where I live, most if not all who speak of God mean the Christian god. When they say you can have a God of your understanding, most people still do the Christian God. I have no issues with what people call their HP but, if we are truly not allied with any sect, denomination, or Institutions then why is it so common to hear Christian prayers at meetings? It seems when it comes to HP or God as we understand him, aa should be a little more honest.

Personally, I would prefer that all meetings end with the responsibility statement. That would be more in line with not being allied with sects and denominations.

Of course when ever I have brought it up it got very bad responses. I was even called someone who was of the devil which is silly cause I don't believe in devils either. Change if any in aa will come very slowly and sadly I don't think I will see it in my lifetime as I am now in my 60's.

tom k
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by tom k »

I'm sober today by the grace of God as revealed through the fellowship and 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous . I didn't make this up to annoy anybody , that's just the way it is for me .

If somebody has difficulty with the concept of God, I understand . If somebody has difficulty with my concept of God, I don't feel obliged to acommodate them by compromising my own faith . That's co-dependence,isn't it ? No thanks .

rjr34036
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by rjr34036 »

From what I understand and deduct from my own experience, the only thing required was NOT BELIEF, but WILLINGNESS, followed by action. If you can say you’re willing to believe that something other than u could restore you to sanity (whether it be Jesus, the fellowship, or even the 12 steps themselves), follow that by doing the rest of the steps and see where you’re at with your beliefs then.
ReAnneR

tomsteve
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by tomsteve »

Soberguy27 wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:39 pm
How would you know if its outdated if you haven't tried it.

I have tried it and I am still sober.
See, at least where I live, most if not all who speak of God mean the Christian god. When they say you can have a God of your understanding, most people still do the Christian God. I have no issues with what people call their HP but, if we are truly not allied with any sect, denomination, or Institutions then why is it so common to hear Christian prayers at meetings? It seems when it comes to HP or God as we understand him, aa should be a little more honest.

Personally, I would prefer that all meetings end with the responsibility statement. That would be more in line with not being allied with sects and denominations.

Of course when ever I have brought it up it got very bad responses. I was even called someone who was of the devil which is silly cause I don't believe in devils either. Change if any in aa will come very slowly and sadly I don't think I will see it in my lifetime as I am now in my 60's.
theres solutions to the problems youre experiencing.
first on the BB being outdated:
put pen to paper and write another book. theres room for more recovery programs out there yet no one will put pen to paper and write a book- just complain about whats already been written and saved millions of lives.

if you want the responsibility decleration read, start a meeting new meeting. theres room for those,too. most wont do that- just complain about whats aready there.

tomsteve
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by tomsteve »

tom k wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:10 pm


If somebody has difficulty with the concept of God, I understand . If somebody has difficulty with my concept of God, I don't feel obliged to acommodate them by compromising my own faith . That's co-dependence,isn't it ? No thanks .
if someone has a probem with my belief in God and me talking about it at meeting then they have a problem.
if someone talking about being an athiest/ agnostic at meetings bothers me then i have a problem.
i dont have a problem with it.

Greywolf
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Re: God/Higher Power

Post by Greywolf »

[/quote]
And yet here I am, sober. And thousands more atheists and agnostics with no "god", still sober through AA. Either that means (1) us agnostics are all doomed to fail, or (2) that the Big Book was written by one guy with three years sobriety who thought God was his answer, and maybe we shouldn't assume it as gospel on this issue.
[/quote]

Bill was going around talking to other alcoholics about this God of his keeping him sober and was having zero success until Lois and Silkworth suggested he cut it out and share his experience. It was the sharing of experience, strength and hope by other recovered and recovering alcoholics -- and now my own sharing -- that has been the source of my sobriety since July 5, 1963. You should have seen me when "God" had me by himself.

I'm grateful for Bill going to see Dr. Bob which was the beginning of AA even if it was not the start. I'm even more grateful for Dr. Bob helping hundreds get sober who returned to their home towns and helped others get sober in order to stay sober themselves. That is the real source of AA growing into hundreds maybe thousands of members before the BB was written.
I don't care how much you know until I know how much you care.

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