24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

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avaneesh912
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24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by avaneesh912 »

Why in AA do we pitch in for a 24 hour sodriety plan out of the Living Sober book while the basic text talks about a permanent sobriety? That too in a newcomers meeting. Un-believable. There was this new comer who was sharing that she was so miserable when she came back from work, her 4 kids were driving her nuts and she shook the 6 year old to shut the f'p. All because she was so obsessively thinking about drinking. While the room was sharing how to postpone the drink to even next 5 minutes. Craziness all around. Keep coming back it works it works. Hope she gets some proper guidance.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: 24 hour sodriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by Indianapolis »

So..... I know I'm a bit of a heretic on this front, but I also don't care much for the "just for today" mantra. I know it helps some people, I do. I know lots of people do the "I've just gotta get through today" approach successfully for years. But it's not for everyone.

Personally, I tried the "one day at a time" thing when I also said "I just can't imagine going the rest of my life without bourbon." Once I really, truly crashed into the rocks of life, I realized that I CAN see the rest of my life without alcohol, and its a hell of a lot better than the rest of my life with alcohol.

And, frankly, I think I've drank a lifetime's quota of booze anyway. So I should leave what's left for someone who hasn't had their share yet. ;-)

But yeah, when I came back into the program it wasn't for 24 hours, or 1 hour, or 5 minutes. The goal is that its for my life, and I personally don't resonate with the "one day at a time" thing. YMMV.

Also, your post brings up another challenge -- what do we do when discussions in meetings show real outside problems unrelated to drinking? E.g., her shaking her kid? Or I was in a meeting once with someone basically bragging about stalking his ex-, because doing so took up a lot of time and kept him sober (!). One day at a time isn't curing these issues, nor is AA equipped to handle them, nor are sponsors meant to be police or therapists.... it creates quite a puzzle.

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avaneesh912
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Re: 24 hour sodriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by avaneesh912 »

what do we do when discussions in meetings show real outside problems unrelated to drinking? E.g., her shaking her kid? Or I was in a meeting once with someone basically bragging about stalking his ex-,
Thats untreated alcoholism. Thats the unmanageability that drives us back to booze. That woman was so remorseful yesterday. She thinks she had a choice. No, she felt so miserable without booze. It takes a deep realization at that point, we cant continue like this and then get into action to build tolerance and patience and love so we dont shake the kids. I brought it up this morning, my wife reminded my state when I was in early. I thanked her but she said, lets not talk about the past, life is better now.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: 24 hour sodriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by PaigeB »

avaneesh912 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:19 am
Why in AA do we pitch in for a 24 hour sobriety plan?
When I came in I could not keep my brain out of the future. The idea of living in alcoholic agony sober for the rest of my life was unbearable. Knowing I only had to make it until bedtime was a "stupid" idea, but it gave me some relief. Now today, due to some painful life issues - I am back telling myself to stay in today... ie, don't go thinking that this pain is going to last forever... don't think that I can second guess my fate and prepare somehow for a future that is truly Unknown to me. I have to stay in what few little things I can DO today - and quit projecting this moment onto the entire rest of my life.

I would not be able to live in the present day - unless I had to practice living in this 24 hour period.
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

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Re: 24 hour sodriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by tomsteve »

my plan is to die sober.
i can only do that one day at a time. i cant stay sober tomorrow or yesterday- only today.

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Re: 24 hour sodriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by Theo50 »

tomsteve wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:04 pm
my plan is to die sober.
i can only do that one day at a time. i cant stay sober tomorrow or yesterday- only today.

While I like to use this "one day at a time" thinking to help stop me from worrying about the future, the entire "day at a time" is really illogical as it would make just as much sense to say I only have today and tomorrow as saying I only have today. It would make just as much sense to say I could have died between the time I started writing this post and the time I hit the submit button. We don't have any more control over the rest of "today" as we do "tomorrow". The infinitesimal amount of time between the last infinitesimal amount of time is the difference between the past, present and future.

Of course saying I can't stay sober yesterday is also really illogical, as it has already happened and we as humans have not yet figured out how to change the past. That is currently only in the fiction of books and movies, etc.

Having a plan to die sober is a good thing and I can't disagree with that. I plan on retiring with money in my retirement account. I plan things all the time. I am planning on taking vacation time from work this Spring. I plan on being sober in the Spring as well.

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Re: 24 hour sodriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by D'oh »

tomsteve wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:04 pm
my plan is to die sober.
i can only do that one day at a time. i cant stay sober tomorrow or yesterday- only today.
My plan Also.

Today is the Day I have to Live, If I do this as close to my Higher Power's Will as I can, Tomorrow will come and go the way it was intended to.

All the Yesterdays, has just brought me to Today.

"Life is what Happens, when We are making other plans."

I wish you a Pleasant Journey to your plan. "Trudging the Road OFhappy Destiny."

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avaneesh912
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Re: 24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by avaneesh912 »

In 2 instances on page 92, the book talks about the alcoholic doesn't have the capacity to avoid the first drink. They talk about the peculiar mental twist around the first drink that makes it impossible for them to think straight. And we still talk about pushing the drink to the next minutes.

Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop. Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this, as we have done it, in the chapter on alcoholism.

Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power.

I know not all are ready but there are few people who come in for a solution. If they have a clear understanding of what they are up against, maybe they will pay more attention to the real solution.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: 24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by Db1105 »

Why?, because it works for some of us. It was the hook. I could not comprehend a lifetime of not drinking, but 24 hours seemed possible. It kept me around long enough to where Step 2 made a little sense. Some of us are real slow to comprehend things. I'm grateful I found a sponsor with compassion and a understanding of the Steps instead of a hard nose, it must be done this way preacher. Funny how God makes things work.

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Re: 24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by Mike O »

I guess the 24 hour thing may of benefit initially for some, until they can get through the steps, which should be the immediate aim. But, to me, it is a bit too close to white knuckling and the dry drunk.

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avaneesh912
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Re: 24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by avaneesh912 »

Think we are here to educate the newcomers using what we learned about this fatal disease from the big book.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: 24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by BA Lodi »

When I got here, I wanted to get sober temporarily until I fixed my problems. I did not understand what "alcoholic" meant. I thought working the Steps was going to be like taking a college class. So, I did not drink today and tried to figure out what was going on in meetings.

Decades later, generally speaking, I hope my sobriety is permanent. But my spiritual condition ebbs and flows with life on life's terms. Every time I think I have dealt with any particular character defect and have turned it over, eventually it reappears in another scenario with different people. For me, this is part of being a homo sapiens. I become aware of the stinking thinking and strive for balance, specifically using my AA tools one day at a time.

ESH indicates that both methods contribute to the ways drunks get sober. Or not. I guess I'll just try and do the next right thing for me and not try to use my ESH as a manipulation. I admit I have those moments...

Happy Thursday! Barbara D.

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Re: 24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by D'oh »

wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:06 pm
When I got here, I wanted to get sober temporarily until I fixed my problems. I did not understand what "alcoholic" meant. I thought working the Steps was going to be like taking a college class. So, I did not drink today and tried to figure out what was going on in meetings.

Decades later, generally speaking, I hope my sobriety is permanent. But my spiritual condition ebbs and flows with life on life's terms. Every time I think I have dealt with any particular character defect and have turned it over, eventually it reappears in another scenario with different people. For me, this is part of being a homo sapiens. I become aware of the stinking thinking and strive for balance, specifically using my AA tools one day at a time.

ESH indicates that both methods contribute to the ways drunks get sober. Or not. I guess I'll just try and do the next right thing for me and not try to use my ESH as a manipulation. I admit I have those moments...

Happy Thursday! Barbara D.
Thanks Barbara.

I may have made it in, a few moments (from Struggles) later than you. You see I knew My Drinking was causing My Struggles"

A "Sudden Glimpse of Sanity" I call it. And my Life was nowhere near it. My first Spiritual Experience, looking back from Now.

From there, I lived 4 days of Immense Hell. Knowing I could not drink, because I could not live another Day of the Unmanageability. But at the same time, Not able to imagine a Lifetime of Not Drinking. There wasn't many choices left.

Then I found my first Meeting. There was Much Evidence of Life without Alcohol.

The thing I learnt from my return to Alcohol is.

Every Day Sober, is a Gift. I can use it any way I wish, but I don't Own Sobriety. I must ask for it, and remember I can't do it on My Own.

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Re: 24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by Wanderingdave »

Good thread of sharing, got me wondering where I am on this topic. Sobering up at age 20, I couldn’t imagine living my whole life without booze even though I knew I couldn’t drink safely. I was at the jumping off point like it says in the book. It was all I could do to make it to the meeting, sit still for an hour, and grab a little hope to make it to the next meeting. Got a sponsor, took the steps, and I was transformed. That’s what happens when we follow the directions outlined in the book- nothing special about me per se, I just did what was suggested and got the same result as everyone else that did the same. Now thirty years sober, I look at one day at a time as how my life flows. I wake up in the morning, pray, read, share. Go about the day, pausing when agitated and doubtful and ask for guidance. When I retire at night, I review my day like it says in the book. Fall asleep, wake up, repeat. I make plans, have dreams, and know that permanent sobriety is my goal, but I keep the living of it in daily chunks so that, no matter what happens, each day provides a new beginning to try again. It works, it really does! Thanks for letting me share.

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Re: 24 hour Sobriety plan vs Permanent Sobriety

Post by innermost »

There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born
that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which
demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who
suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have
the capacity to be honest.
Different strokes for different folks.
What an order I can't go through with it.
This program suggests to totally change ones life.
To go from a grave or mild alcoholic to a Higher Power induced Spiritual Experience by working 12 steps.
Many people can hit mental and emotional anguish and just want the anguish to stop and
they know a drink or a resentment or other disorder can change their state of being in one form or the other.
So the one day at a time approach can get a person through a patch of time and save a life possibly.
There are many stories that have not been told where they could not stay sober that one day and
are no longer here to tell us how it was.
What we really have is a daily reprieve (from our alcoholic or addictive behaviors) contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition.
After recovering from alcoholism a person may adopt Spiritual principles of living.
Honoring the Day the Creator has made. Thus living one day at a time in the fellowship of the Spirit.
The first 164 pg. is the program!

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