New Slogans

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Daelynn
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Re: New Slogans

Post by Daelynn » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:03 am

avaneesh912 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:20 pm

Sounds very handy, but the alcoholic can't/wont think through. Thats what we are trying to debunk. The alcoholic mind goes through a freeze or most of the time deliberates but eventually the drinking thought overrides all other thoughts. This is true powerlessness. Unfortunately these messages are propagated by people who dont dig into the material laid out in the big book.

You ever read the parargraph on page 24 in italics? Pick up the book and read it or re read it.
I'm not sure if any of the behaviors suggested by the slogans comes naturally and reflexively to alcoholics. I thought that was why they came up with a slogan for them! Arent slogans kind of a reminder, so that certain mental responses become more automatic, rather than the result of long deliberation based on how I happen to feel that day or the situation I'm in? If not, why do slogans even exist, and who started it?
Telling some one to "think it through" is more or less saying their step one is not on firm ground, that some small doubt may have quietly lingered about whether they can ever drink again.

Folks with long time sobriety might take step one for granted, but for new comers, it's not always a sudden and irreversible epiphany.

davep54
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Re: New Slogans

Post by davep54 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:55 am

Why do we need new slogans again?

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Daelynn
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Re: New Slogans

Post by Daelynn » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:52 pm

I always thought of them as just memory aids for things explained in the Big Book, but people tend to argue about what they "really" mean or what situations the slogans apply to. Only an alcoholic can complicate "keep it simple."

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Re: New Slogans

Post by Layne » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:49 pm

The vast majority of the time when I think about reinventing the wheel, it is ego related.

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Re: New Slogans

Post by 1Peter5:10 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:16 pm

Daelynn wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:52 pm
. . . Only an alcoholic can complicate "keep it simple."
LMAO

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Re: New Slogans

Post by 1Peter5:10 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:43 pm

Daelynn wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:03 am
.
.
.

Folks with long time sobriety might take step one for granted, but for new comers, it's not always a sudden and irreversible epiphany.
You say that out loud.

For reasons I could only guess at, in my first year of sobriety I found myself helping a sizable number of relapsers.

Their stories differed in many ways, but, I neither judged them for relapsing, nor pushed them to "get well soon.". (Handy phrase: "If you relapse, some of your friends will hate you and some of them won't. God created EXACTLY the right number of each.")

Anyway, one thing a lot of them seemed to have in common was the absolute belief that they will sooner or later "get it again," (get sober again.)

I tried not too sound too condescending when I explained "That's not how it worked for me. You just said you CAN get it. I couldn't get it until I knew I was totally *#&-:€

That's one of the great paradoxes. Only when knew I CAN'T get it, then I had a chance "

I tend to ramble on at the mouth sometimes so I probably said a whole lot more words, but none were truer, none more necessary

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avaneesh912
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Re: New Slogans

Post by avaneesh912 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:44 am

Why do we need new slogans again?
To counter the catchy slogans like:

"if you dont take the first drink you wont get drunk". "Go to a meeting even if you A falls off". "Time to call your sponsor is before taking a drink not after". "Think through the drink". "Its the engine not the caboose". Just dont pick up and go to meetings ( Its like Nancy Regan saying, "Just say No")

All these sound very very reasonable, I fell for it too. But some great people pointed out the key paragraphs in the book, where the book talks about the subtle insanity that precedes the first drink. They use the terms Blanks spots, Peculiar Mental twist. The true alcoholic is absolutely no capacity to think straight and thats the insanity that we are talking about in step two.

The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so- called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.

The almost certain consequences that follow taking even a glass of beer do not crowd into the mind to deter us. If these thoughts occur, they are hazy and readily supplanted with the old threadbare idea that this time we shall handle ourselves like other people. There is a complete failure of the kind of defense that keeps one from putting his hand on a hot stove.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: New Slogans

Post by davep54 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:43 am

Then we don't need new slogans, we just need the BB. I never liked or used anything outside conference approved literature except "The Varieties of Religious Experience" by William James.

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Re: New Slogans

Post by avaneesh912 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:06 am

There is no ego in telling the waiter that your soup is cold and needs to be heated up – if you stick to the facts, which are always neutral.
“How dare you serve me cold soup...” That's complaining, that is EGO.
So am trying just see how we can fix the problem when this fellowship with riddled with these cliches that constantly tells the newcomer he has the power while he doesn't.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: New Slogans

Post by PaigeB » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:37 pm

avaneesh912 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:06 am
So am trying just see how we can fix the problem when this fellowship with riddled with these cliches that constantly tells the newcomer he has the power while he doesn't.
Fix E-aa? It does not have this problem...
Fix the Fellowship? We do not have this problem in Iowa and haven't in my 10 years. The problem is NOT systemic.

YOU might need to take practical action and bring a few people along with you!
If it is a problem with your area, get a coffee pot and start a meeting designed to turn it around there where you are. Have monthly Speakers come in from all over the US or world and tell their experiences as speakers or in workshops.
Step 6 is "AA's way of stating, the best possible attitude one can take in order to make a beginning on this lifetime job... with most of them we shall have to be content with patient improvement." 12&12 Step Six, p.65

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Re: New Slogans

Post by Theo50 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:47 pm

Daelynn wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:24 pm
The mind *is* the brain, and is part of the body. Cant really separate it. I know people who claim AA isnt very scientific (maybe because of the spiritual element) but I think its practical advice is actually very compatible with modern neuroscience and what they've discovered about addiction and habits and cues and subconscious choices.
I think that this is important to note that the brain inside ones body is what is considered the mind. The consumption of alcohol effects brain function. The body cannot function without a brain. I think that the science of how the brain is effected by alcohol is often overlooked in the AA program. Understanding how and why our brains reacts to alcohol the way they do may help with understanding why we get to these points where we relapse. Our brains have been completely "brain-washed" into thinking that it is the answer to our problems. Re-training of the brain to undo that brain-washing can be extremely difficult.

Alcohol may only be a symptom but AA without alcohol is just Anonymous.

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Re: New Slogans

Post by D'oh » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:10 pm

Folks with long time sobriety might take step one for granted, but for new comers, it's not always a sudden and irreversible epiphany.
The only thing I bring from Yesterday is the 1st Step. I Am Powerless, and My Life Was Unmanagable.

From there, I start each New Day, at the 2nd Step. That I will Lack Sanity, without a HP and the other 11 Steps.

Life Happens Daily, Hourly, Every Minute. Without recalling the "Life I had trying to Do it My Way" and Failing miserably over and over again.

I need Help for Daily Sanity.

I Can't, but in admitting Failure, I have found a Program that Can! If I follow a Few Simple Steps, to the Best of my Ability.

The only Slogan I hesitate about is "Think, Think, Think" That's what usually got me in trouble. A lot of Humility is needed with that Slogan

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Re: New Slogans

Post by avaneesh912 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:55 am

Some dont think at all when they pick up and for some thoughts get obsessive. The statement "When we overcome the spiritual malady we straighten out mentally and physically". Then if one still has the alcoholic mind, would ask, does that mean we can safely drink? Nope, it means the sanity would have been restored and even if we were tempted, we will recoil. We dont have to worry about the allergy part.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: New Slogans

Post by D'oh » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:46 am

But "What we really have is a Daily Reprieve, Contingent on Our Spiritual Condition."

It is basically about the "Spiritual Malady", once we Let Go and Let God (Higher Power) and quit Playing that role, The promises like "Recoiling as from a Hot Flame" begin to appear.

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PaigeB
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Re: New Slogans

Post by PaigeB » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:59 am

... live in thankful contemplation...
TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS. p. 192
PB: Everyday gratitude, everyday.
From today's Daily Reflection.
Step 6 is "AA's way of stating, the best possible attitude one can take in order to make a beginning on this lifetime job... with most of them we shall have to be content with patient improvement." 12&12 Step Six, p.65

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