Hence we are at pains

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avaneesh912
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Hence we are at pains

Post by avaneesh912 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:01 am

Logic is great stuff. We liked it. We still like it. It is not by chance we were given the power to reason, to examine the evidence of our senses, and to draw conclusions. That is one of man’s magnificent attributes. We agnostically inclined would not feel satisfied with a proposal which does not lend itself to reasonable approach and interpretation. Hence we are at pains to tell why we think our present faith is reasonable, why we think it more sane and logical to believe than not to believe, why we say our former thinking was soft and mushy when we threw up our hands in doubt and said, “We don’t know.’’
The above is from "We Aganostics" I had to look up what the phrase really mean "We are at pains" to understand the context. We are finding it difficult???
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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ebear
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Re: Hence we are at pains

Post by ebear » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:19 am

Any scientist, from believer to atheist, should and would set aside theological philosophy and merely observe, "When I do X, Y happens."

The next phase, Why does X lead to Y, does not challenge the observation that X does in fact lead to Y.

So to save ourselves from annihilation, we alcoholics--whether believers, agnostics, or atheists--give ourselves over to a program that works, no matter why it does.

When I used to ask all sorts of questions about the why, I had an AA friend who would tap me on the forehead and say, "Shut that thing off."
If you don't change direction, you'll end up where you're headed.

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PaigeB
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Re: Hence we are at pains

Post by PaigeB » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:29 am

Any scientist, from believer to atheist, should and would set aside theological philosophy and merely observe, "When I do X, Y happens."

The next phase, Why does X lead to Y, does not challenge the observation that X does in fact lead to Y.

So to save ourselves from annihilation, we alcoholics--whether believers, agnostics, or atheists--give ourselves over to a program that works, no matter why it does.
Thanks for this overview of basic science. It is so true when applied to how I got sober. "If you want we have then do what we did." Still makes perfect sense, even if applied to the prayer, "God save me"... if nothing else, it is because I reminded my inner-most self what my goal was that day and turned my thoughts to my plans for that... Meetings, calls and reading and online AA. All very practical and useful stuff!

What got me to crack my firm atheism shell to become a Polytheist/non-theist - besides talking to folks about THEIR HP's - was hearing things like this a few times:

No one can explain their HP, only the parts where the human language explains facets of their HP.

The Tao explained is not the Tao. If I can dumb it down to how my language can explain "it" ~ then 'it' is not It.
Step 6 is "AA's way of stating, the best possible attitude one can take in order to make a beginning on this lifetime job... with most of them we shall have to be content with patient improvement." 12&12 Step Six, p.65

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Jane08
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Re: Hence we are at pains

Post by Jane08 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:55 pm

Maybe they mean something related to painstaking? Like they are working on this carefully and diligently?

davep54
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Re: Hence we are at pains

Post by davep54 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:39 am

It's spelt "We Agnostics".

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avaneesh912
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Re: Hence we are at pains

Post by avaneesh912 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:10 am

Maybe they mean something related to painstaking? Like they are working on this carefully and diligently?
It made sense to me when I substitute we have difficulty for we are at pains =biggrin
Hence we have difficulty to tell why we think our present faith is reasonable, why we think it more sane and logical to believe than not to believe, why we say our former thinking was soft and mushy when we threw up our hands in doubt and said, “We don’t know.’’
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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PaigeB
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Re: Hence we are at pains

Post by PaigeB » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:48 am

Jane08 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:55 pm
Maybe they mean something related to painstaking? Like they are working on this carefully and diligently?
Great point! "painstaking" - meaning Take the Pain? We have a price to pay for sure. I am laughing a bit because my 11 year old granddaughter has decided that she wants to skateboard. I told her that she had to "suck it up" if she crashed. She said: what if I break my arm?! Me: Well, child ~ That you will need to cry out for help with!

So there will be pains taking - the promises tell us so. And I suppose Bill W. and the first few that helped write the BB WERE pains taking and "at pains to tell why (they) think our present faith is reasonable", when it sometimes does not seem scientific or logical. I think it from THIS basis that they came to the standard of a personal "Higher Power". The likely argued a great deal to come up with the "One Truth" type stuff and failed even after taking the pain of such discussions.

I like the talking point and the new perspective!
Step 6 is "AA's way of stating, the best possible attitude one can take in order to make a beginning on this lifetime job... with most of them we shall have to be content with patient improvement." 12&12 Step Six, p.65

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Spirit Flower
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Re: Hence we are at pains

Post by Spirit Flower » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:13 pm

Hence we have difficulty to tell why we think our present faith is reasonable
You go it dude! The use of "at pains" is an American colloquialism not much in use nowadays.
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