Condescension in AA

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Blue Moon
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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Blue Moon » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:22 pm

Splicer_777 wrote:OK I got drunk again last night

The wording needs to change.
Are you seriously suggesting that if the wording was different, you would not have drunk?

Here's a helpful tip: words alone never keep me sober, except for my own words after I've taken some other actions.
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Soberguy27
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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Soberguy27 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:11 pm

I get it. One thing that really helped me was what my sponsor told me. You have to remember the reason we are all here is because we are all not there. People are human and are subject to being arrogant and egoistic. There are aa's who think they know everything and are willing to tell you what they know. Speaking your mind and being honest is OK as long as you are not attacking anyone personally.I know how it feels to have people cross talk because as an atheist I have had my fair share of it. I have had people try to convert me or say things like keep coming back in a smug way. The aa big book is meant to be suggestive only and it says so right in the aa big book. Luckily there are many meetings and you can find one that might be more understanding of how you feel. I truly believe that most in aa really want you to be sober. Having an open mind helps but it doesn't mean that you have to buy everything. That's why you may hear take what you need and leave the rest. Try different meetings and try listening for the similarities and not the differences. If you are just going to meetings to argue or to tell everyone that they are wrong then why bother going in the first place. Being unique or at least thinking you are very much so is kind of arrogant. If you are so unique then why are you at an aa meeting. Unless you were sent by the courts. Being an atheist in aa has been challenging I made it work and have been sober now for over 28 years. I would suggest you try different meetings to find one the resonates with you best and just go from there. If you go to a meeting prejudging everyone you will be wasting your time. I hope you give AA a real chance and hopefully you'll find what I found. A better way of living.

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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Db1105 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:46 am

12 Step recovery works by doing all 12 Steps.

J.J.
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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by J.J. » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:44 pm

Early in recovery, absent a sponsor to take me through the B.B. and the 12 steps, I came across a kind of "study guide". It is a book called A Program for You. I found it very helpful in learning and understanding the Big Book and the journey I'd begun with the Twelve Steps. Like you, I was once an atheist. People of Faith managed to convince me to pray every day for two weeks. I was desperate enough to try even though I didn't know who I was praying to and something remarkable began happening during this time. Stuff just seemed to start working out all on its own. Unexpected opportunities popped up out of nowhere (not something that ever happened in my former way of living). And I realized that even though I had no specific idea of who or what this "Higher Power" was, it was certainly making my life better. Today I get to live a life beyond my expectations but the point is it all started by putting my own way of thinking aside for just a little while and taking someone else's suggestion for once. As I'm sure you've heard said before "my own best thinking got me to where I was in the first place". The fellowship of A.A. came out of the twelve steps, not the other way around.

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Brock
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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Brock » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:27 pm

J.J. wrote:The fellowship of A.A. came out of the twelve steps, not the other way around.
Welcome to e-AA JJ, never thought about that before, but it makes sense. Thanks for a powerful share, and hope to see you around on the forums in the future.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Splicer_777 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:12 pm

I haven't been able to sit through an entire AA meeting lately.
It's 15 minutes have elapsed and I walk right out.
Why can't we have a meeting without reading how it works, the 12 steps and 12 traditions every time? Why can't we have a meeting without holding hands with a bunch of strangers and saying a prayer? Do we all have to behave like a bunch of braindead lemmings in order to stay sober? Is that why it works?
Those things alone make me want to avoid AA like a plague for the rest of my life.
This thing is seriously archaic and in MAJOR need of updates if you care at all about keeping anyone young sober. This thing is broken, and completely outdated. Technology is brutal.

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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by D'oh » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:39 pm

That is All about Group Conscience. Don't Want/Need How it Works? Bring it up at the Group Business Meeting.

Personally, I don't think we read enough of How it Works, the next few pages (rest of Step 3) holds a lot of Truth. Maybe read it and see for yourself.

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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by avaneesh912 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:41 am

Why can't we have a meeting without reading how it works, the 12 steps and 12 traditions every time? Why can't we have a meeting without holding hands with a bunch of strangers and saying a prayer? Do we all have to behave like a bunch of braindead lemmings in order to stay sober? Is that why it works?
Use that as meditation. Pay attention to every word that is read. See if you are mentally there. I know its difficult without going through the steps. It helps build discipline.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by tomsteve » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:32 am

D'oh wrote: Personally, I don't think we read enough of How it Works, the next few pages (rest of Step 3) holds a lot of Truth. Maybe read it and see for yourself.
no doubt! the "why" of step 3 is a wee bit important.

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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Greywolf » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:14 am

Splicer_777 wrote:I haven't been able to sit through an entire AA meeting lately.
It's 15 minutes have elapsed and I walk right out.
Why can't we have a meeting without reading how it works, the 12 steps and 12 traditions every time? Why can't we have a meeting without holding hands with a bunch of strangers and saying a prayer? Do we all have to behave like a bunch of braindead lemmings in order to stay sober? Is that why it works?
Those things alone make me want to avoid AA like a plague for the rest of my life.
This thing is seriously archaic and in MAJOR need of updates if you care at all about keeping anyone young sober. This thing is broken, and completely outdated. Technology is brutal.
Here are a few suggestions.
1. Come in 10 minutes late and avoid the readings.
2. Find 2 more people with a resentment like yours, get a coffee pot and start a meeting that works the way you would like it.
I don't care how much you know until I know how much you care.

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Layne
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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Layne » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:25 am

If i can't sit through more than 15 minutes of a meeting, it doesn't mean the meeting is broken; It means I want things to be the way I want them to be. It means I am being self centered.

If I start thinking that the readings that start meetings are the repetitions of a bunch of brain dead lemmings, see the above. Someone might be at their very first meeting ever and be hearing the readings for the first time and need to hear them and get something out of them.

If I am struggling with the concept of holding hands with a bunch of strangers and saying a prayer, I have missed a huge boat and a moment of power.

When I view attendees at a meeting as strangers, it is because I am being self centered. It is only, all about me, when I choose it be all about me. When I first came into the world, I didn't know anyone. Everyone was a stranger.

When I first came into AA, I wanted things to be the way I wanted them to be. That pattern of thinking and subsequent behavior had to be smashed. I could either join the world, or I could continue to shrink my world in order to have things be the way I them them to be until I wound up dead as a result of my self centeredness.

It didn't happen right away, because I an stubborn (I want things to be the way I want them to be), but I finally surrendered and joined the world. No regrets since. The world might be flawed, but it beats the hell out of Layne's world.
Last edited by Layne on Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Splicer_777 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:44 am

Wow the drinking is really taking control... I feel myself succumbing to it, I'll probably commit suicide in 2-3 months when I run out of money. I just can't stop engaging in reckless behavior on a constant basis because it's like, I have to run away from my mind

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Brock
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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Brock » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:33 pm

You are not really different from the rest of us, escaping from reality or the mind as you put it, was a major reason for drinking. If you believe that suicide is a better option than doing the program I hope that works out, I and probably others have told you more than once here, that we found meetings necessary until we completed the steps, then we found them optional. The program makes us comfortable with what’s in our mind, given time and growth more than comfortable, bloody happy!

As Greywolf said you could go a little late and miss the reading, if you feel it’s a waste of time, but bellyaching about it all is not the answer, a few months of meetings and step work is a small price to pay for a good life.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

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Layne
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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Layne » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:52 pm

Running away from my mind is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as I run in the direction of my heart. I learned that in the rooms and in working the steps. When you run, have a purpose, a plan, and a and direction. Run to sanity, not insanity. I can relate to much of your story and the way you feel, There is hope and a better way of life. I found it and you can too.

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Re: Condescension in AA

Post by Splicer_777 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:59 pm

I do appreciate that y'all aren't getting on my case or condemning me for having a pity-party on here. And I understand why. This disease is so deadly, just think of all the people in the rooms that get some years together get some chips, then they go out and die. Yelling at a newcomer alcoholic for not doing the steps? For Expletive about the program? For not listening? Well he just might go drink, and die. This is serious business. Alcoholics are self-destructive by nature and those who stay sober, I suppose, are an aberration.

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