For recovery discussion


Postby PaigeB » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:44 am


All A.A. progress can be reckoned in terms of just two words: humility and responsibility. Our whole spiritual development can be accurately measured by our degree of adherence to these magnificent standards.

This is part of today's Daily Reflection. To me, they are talking about our Tradition 4, which was part of another topic in the Forums this morning.
"Tradition 4: Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole." Tradition 4 of the 12 traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous states that the freedom individual groups have carries with it the admonition to protect the fellowship as a whole. Very Well Mind

AUTONOMY is a ten-dollar word. But in relation to us, it means very simply that every A.A. group can manage its affairs exactly as it pleases, except when A.A. as a whole is threatened.
Step 6 is "AA's way of stating, the best possible attitude one can take in order to make a beginning on this lifetime job... with most of them we shall have to be content with patient improvement." 12&12 Step Six, p.65
User avatar
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 7966
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:28 pm
Location: Iowa USA


Postby Brock » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:34 pm

AUTONOMY is a ten-dollar word. But in relation to us, it means very simply that every A.A. group can manage its affairs exactly as it pleases, except when A.A. as a whole is threatened.

I think the problems start, when we decide to be the judge of what type of group does in fact damage AA as a whole. There are different types of groups operating under the AA label, the back to basics groups believe they have a good formula and high success rate, the primtime groups feel their methods are more successful as well, and we have had some very harsh words said about them, in a thread on this site. My own belief would have me wishing every AA group would follow the program and traditions, only as written in the big book and 12 & 12. But we should keep in mind those same books warn about judging others. In tradition 4 for which the link was given, we see this -
Over the years, every conceivable deviation from our Twelve Steps and Traditions has been tried. That was sure to be, since we are so largely a band of ego-driven individualists. Children of chaos, we have defiantly played with every brand of fire, only to emerge unharmed and, we think, wiser. These very deviations created a vast process of trial and error which, under the grace of God, has brought us to where we stand today.

So it seems that process still goes on, some people are deviating from what we here believe is ‘real AA,’ and just like happened with us, they may also lean by trial and error. But then some are tempted to shout out ‘it’s peoples lives they are playing with, we can’t keep quiet,’ and proceed to lambaste them in the worse possible way. But AA as we know and practice it here in this online group, and in groups our members attend, is so far more well established and known to the public and health industry, than any other group using the AA name, that it should be accepted that members who attend groups different from our own, do so of their own free will, and some have reported here that they attend both.

Also from tradition 4 -
Thus it was that under Tradition Four an A.A. group had exercised its right to be wrong. Moreover, it had performed a great service for Alcoholics Anonymous, because it had been humbly willing to apply the lessons it learned. It had picked itself up with a laugh and gone on to better things. Even the chief architect, standing in the ruins of his dream, could laugh at himself—and that is the very acme of humility.

So it should be fair to allow others to exercise their right to be wrong, and humbly learn from any mistakes, it says “that is the very acme of humility,” and the opposite of humility must therefore be, the actions of those who write on forums like this condemning anyone who would dare do things a little differently. Our big book states in the forward - “Upon therapy for the alcoholic himself, we surely have no monopoly. “ And while we hope every group which uses the AA name will do it exactly as that book says, we should not ill speak those who differ, and I believe online groups should discourage allowing disparaging remarks about others.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
User avatar
Forums Coordinator
Posts: 3727
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:45 pm


Postby D'oh » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:16 pm

I have heard it said "The only way AA will fail is from within"

With over 80 years of many members with a variety of thoughts, opinions, histories, and such, the Doors are still open. Not every Door, but AA has survived.

Talk about an "Act of Providence". There is someone much larger, Chairing every Meeting, and it's Members. Right from Bill's Hotel Lobby call, to today. Every Member's views, as far from my own, has a place to be heard.
Forums Long Timer
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:51 am


Postby JungianRecovery » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:26 am

Even if AA does destroy itself from within, another group similar to AA will spring up. It's in us humans to come together and begin talking with each other when we're in pain.

There were big tent groups in the 19th century similar to AA. They lost influence then Bill W made a call.

We're going to reach out and connect no matter the form it takes; that's what humans do.
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:49 am


Postby Blue Moon » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:45 am

The only problem e-AA has with other programs is when someone comes here trying to sell them.

e-AA Group has no opinion on outside issues, and that includes organisations trying to make a profit from AA's name, passing themselves off as being part of AA when they're really not. In promoting them here, it ceases to be an outside issue and therefore the e-AA Group does have an opinion:

e-AA Group Conscience is that it does not break Tradition 6 by lending AA's name to any other entity, no matter how effective they think they are.
Ian S
AKA Blue Moon
User avatar
Blue Moon
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 3677
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New Jersey

Return to Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 9 guests