Making words mean what you want them to mean?

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Mary
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Making words mean what you want them to mean?

Post by Mary »

Whats the harm eh?

It dilutes the message and aids and abets confusion. I'm talking about atheism. A lot of atheists don't know what atheism means. I know a few who say things like....I dont believe in God but I am spiritual.

Well the spiritual realm is God. Someone more PC than me would probably stick in the caveat of IMHO. Well humble opinions are just internalised norms and the creeping adherence to 'my truth this' and 'my truth that' just means we are increasingly wandering around in a lonely solipsistic universe not really connecting to anyone and not really knowing what anyone else means.

There is actually value in being on the same page with regards to what words mean because they are our means of connection and pathway out of loneliness.

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positrac
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

Post by positrac »

Funny you mention this topic because I heard the other day that if someone sneezes we in America normally might say God bless you and so now this term is or could be called islamophobia. I lived overseas for 7 years and I was told this: When in Rome, do as the Romans and I found it worked and people would treat me decent because I respected them and the cultures I was in at those times. Being PC is not all that it is cracked up to be and tolerance a lot of times is being bull dozed into having to comply with something that I might not believe in.

I believe in God and I've made it clear to some of the new comers that getting all wrapped up in God in early recovery can hinder growth and be an excuse to go out and figure out if they really are powerless over alcohol. I say G-Good o-orderly d-Direction (God) because we all have believed in all kinds of stuff seen and unseen and so we gotta start somewhere in the journey of sobriety.


Some my meaning of words goes like this: I believe in God, and if you ask me about God as I understand I will provide a means to what I believe in and why. But don't try and cram some other crap down my throat as I am not treading on you! if we all can respect that then really this topic might not be such an issue.

Getting out of the way of distractions and spiritual beliefs is not a distraction as much as the wall we've allowed to block us from positive growth. More will be revealed and that is said for a reason and if we allowe the miracles to happen then we grow into that "understanding" on our spiritual beliefs.
Work hard, stay positive, and get up early. It's the best part of the day.
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avaneesh912
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

Post by avaneesh912 »

This is something personal. Thats why the book encourages our own conception of this power. We experience it after going through the process. We tap into that inner resource and our consciousness/awareness increases. We are able to step out of the drama and let life un-fold and see the beauty in everything. Thats why AA works. I can sit with a christian and help him get connected with god of his understanding or even an atheist. We start defining this power in step 2 and thats where the whole problem starts. Step 2 proposition is to come to a belief that whatever that worked for Bill, Bob and others will work for me too. Thats it. And then we start cleaning up the rest of the steps and experiencing life.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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positrac
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

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avaneesh912 wrote:This is something personal. Thats why the book encourages our own conception of this power. We experience it after going through the process. We tap into that inner resource and our consciousness/awareness increases. We are able to step out of the drama and let life un-fold and see the beauty in everything. Thats why AA works. I can sit with a christian and help him get connected with god of his understanding or even an atheist. We start defining this power in step 2 and thats where the whole problem starts. Step 2 proposition is to come to a belief that whatever that worked for Bill, Bob and others will work for me too. Thats it. And then we start cleaning up the rest of the steps and experiencing life.
Nice points in this message and from my original post what I didn't say or even elude to was I went to a meeting on Chestnut street in Philly many years ago and I was in town over night and I opened the phone book (before the net) and called the central office and asked for the nearest meeting. I was out at the airport hotel and so I took a cab to town. Big meeting with a lot of enthusiasms and full house. But what got me agitated is this guy who is all fired up on how God screwed him with this curse of alcoholism and just being really vocal of AA steps and traditions and how full of BS this whole thing is. This is back in 1992 and I was 2.5 years sober and very active in AA anywhere I visited or stayed. I think I said he was not blaming the right individual for his bad luck and if he looked at the root cause he'd see his real issue. A lot more to this meeting location became evident because of the issues with religious things that are man-made to make us feel guilty.

I was actually was able to speak with this guy after the meeting and he expressed frustration with willpower and inability to not fall for the temptations of the drink. He was really at wits end because he refused to accept he was powerless and that a power greater than him could restore him. I said look at this rock I have and feel it and look to it for faith and the ability to think about something else. Be it simple or not that guy found peace in that silly pebble and he grew to understand God as he saw it. Sadly he died of AIDS back in 2000 and he was sober and he was a decent soul who traveled in a realm I don't understand and yet he was a gracious person who helped a lot of other drunks find peace. it is really what we are willing to do about finding that peace and not about how to make it taboo or something.
Work hard, stay positive, and get up early. It's the best part of the day.
George Allen, Sr.

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PaigeB
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

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We don't define God ~ God defines us. IMHO
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

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Brock
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

Post by Brock »

positrac wrote: I said look at this rock I have and feel it and look to it for faith and the ability to think about something else. Be it simple or not that guy found peace in that silly pebble and he grew to understand God as he saw it.
This was a very good thing I think, some folks don't like bible quotes, but from the gospel of Thomas we see - “Jesus said: Split wood, I am there. Lift up a rock, you will find me there."

And from Job -
If you would learn more, ask the cattle,
Seek information from the birds of the air.
The creeping things of earth will give you lessons,
And the fishes of the sea will tell you all.

Thanks to the writings of those who seem to know, I have come to believe that everything and everyone is a spiritual entity, and nature in particular is blessed. Perhaps what puts many ‘atheists’ off of spirituality, is the assumption that it means worshiping a God, as in kneeling down and praying. As avaneesh said it’s a personal thing, and for those who keel and pray more power to them, but I do wish terms like ‘hit your knees’ weren't used in AA, I think it puts some people off.

As I have said in the past, where my computer is I can look at a small mountain out the window, lived here for thirty years and I never bothered looking until a few years ago. Now I love it because I see God there, and right now there is a pretty bird on the grass under the window pecking for grubs. Who would have thought that an old grumpy vagabond drunkard, would one day be looking at mountains and birds, and smiling happy as hell, thank you AA and thank you God.
You said hit my knees!.jpg
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"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

D'oh
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

Post by D'oh »

I have never been one to quote from the Bible. Unless it has 2 words beginning with A's on the cover.

My Concept of a God, almost had me kicked out of "Pre Marriage Counselling" 28 years ago. (yes still married) But the Door does not have to be opened fully right away. It only needs to be opened a crack, with an Open Mind and Willingness. The rest will been shown, what ever it is to be.

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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

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PaigeB wrote:We don't define God ~ God defines us. IMHO
paige, your reply here reminded me of something father Ed told bill w during a visit. it happened to be at a time bill was struggling with an understanding of God:
" we will never understand God. our idea of God will always be lacking, for to understand, to comprehend God is to be equal to God."

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Roberth
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

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I don’t know about you but some of the worst advice I got when I was new was to make my own god. What happens when a selfish pig makes a god? well let’s just say it almost killed me. I needed to clean out the garbage in my path. Once that happened I got a clear understanding of that would work for me. I had to go back to my second and third steps and see what happen that gave me the spiritual awakening the book describes. It wasn’t that I tried to believe in it was the Fellowship of AA AKA a Group Of Drunks. At 26 years it still is. And just for the record I am an atheist.

The terms “spiritual experience” and “spiritual awakening” are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms.

I post this post not to convince anyone to believe in anything, I post it to show others the path I took the help me to stop defining and start getting a understanding.
Robert
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in pretty, well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming WOW What a ride!!!!

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Blue Moon
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

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Mary wrote:Well the spiritual realm is God.
Says who? Did you just make words mean what you want them to mean?

I don't disagree with your assessment about what God is, but it is yours. Others have a different perspective, and I respect theirs too. What does the Big Book say about your conception of God, in italics in Chapter 7?

Some dictionary definitions: a "deity" is a supernatural being considered divine or sacred; "God" is a deity; "(mono)theism" is belief in (a) God; "atheism" is disbelief in God; "spirituality" is the quality of being concerned with the inner-spirit rather than the physical.

So ... atheism is the absence of belief in a supernatural being. I've no real problem with that in AA, and I'm unclear how it's inconsistent with being concerned with the human spirit. After all, I'm sure I could fervently believe in God yet be in very low spirits on the verge of suicide. I've seen it happen. I've known too many who I'm convinced won't get sober until they get off their knees.

Bottom line: I've so-far stayed sober and relatively sane for a long time without having to accept anyone else's definition of what God is (or isn't).
Ian S
AKA Blue Moon

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PaigeB
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

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tomsteve wrote:
PaigeB wrote:We don't define God ~ God defines us. IMHO
paige, your reply here reminded me of something father Ed told bill w during a visit. it happened to be at a time bill was struggling with an understanding of God:
" we will never understand God. our idea of God will always be lacking, for to understand, to comprehend God is to be equal to God."
YES! I guess I use the word "god" because when said each person's idea of "god" pops into their head. Or I say "higher power" or "HP". Rarely I will use Spirit of the Universe... which is closest to what my understanding is, but hey - I shorten things and "god" is a short word. :wink:
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

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PaigeB
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

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Ohhhh LOL! I didn't know this was today's Daily Reflection! Gotta Love synchronicity!
15th March Daily Reflection

March 15th

THE GOD IDEA

When we saw others solve their problems by a simple reliance upon the Spirit of the Universe, we had to stop doubting the power of God. Our ideas did not work. But the God idea did.
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, p. 52

Like a blind man gradually being restored to sight, I slowly groped my way to the Third Step. Having realized that only a Power greater than myself could rescue me from the hopeless abyss I was in, I knew that this was a Power that I had to grasp, and that it would be my anchor in the midst of a sea of woes. Even though my faith at that time was minuscule, it was big enough to make me see that it was time for me to discard my reliance on my prideful ego and replace it with the steadying strength that could only come from a Power far greater than myself.

From the book Daily Reflections
Copyright © 1990 by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

Mary
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

Post by Mary »

Blue Moon wrote:
Mary wrote:Well the spiritual realm is God.

Bottom line: I've so-far stayed sober and relatively sane for a long time without having to accept anyone else's definition of what God is (or isn't).
Well I'll tell you this Blue Moon, I wouldn't stay sober or sane if I relied on this site, the way people talk past each other, though I see most of you are all singing from the same vapid hymn sheet and get so much out of it. Busy bodies with their pocket dictionaries sat beside them will chirp up...'that's how it feels to you'. Yeah, it is.

I'm done, with the site. Adios.

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positrac
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

Post by positrac »

I was taught in early AA about live and let live. This idea is one that has become really convoluted over time and really PC. I was taught to try and let the other one do their own thing without treading on my values and or beliefs. I lived in California my first two years sober and the stuff I witnessed from so-called sober people made me wonder why I was even trying to live sober.

I've judged a few people over the years and what really pissed me off is when some smart fart decides to put me and or others into a certain category and define us as Mary did. That is a bunch of BS and honestly not very accommodating if you swear you are holier than thou! Bye Mary and please don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Work hard, stay positive, and get up early. It's the best part of the day.
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avaneesh912
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Re: Making words mean what you want them to mean?

Post by avaneesh912 »

I wouldn't stay sober or sane if I relied on this site,
Thats right, its an internal job. Between you and your HP.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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