The First One!

[D'oh]

i managed to go 15 years without picking up that first drink
in those 15 years my focus was on making money and providing for my family etc
so my obsession had a focus and yes there were times i was fed up that i couldn't drink more so at xmas times as i really hated new years eve as everyone it seemed to me would be out there having a great time but not me lol

but the point here is i was not a full blown 24 7 drunk then i was merely an obsession type of alcoholic if you want to call it that

but this time around the difference is i know where i went wrong
i left aa i thought i didnt need it anymore in my life that i was recovered
well i wasnt was i as 15 years later i picked up that first drink
but 15 years is a long time without anything aa related or being around any others from fellowship so i really had no chance of not picking up

like i have said when i came back i was a full blown drunken bum
i had to learn how to get through a day without a drink

Wow, Ditto! Thanks

[avaneesh912]

The Fact is "I am here, Today. By the Grace of my Higher Power" With possibly a better grasp of my "True Situation"

What ever "Twists" don't really matter. "Utilize not Analyze'

We are drifting back to now. I am glad you made it live back to the fellowship.

[avaneesh912]

i would see an aa memeber who has been sober for 50 years one day a time which is amazing in its own right as how the hell do people get to be sober for that length of time and still be around the fellowship trying to help other new comers to do the same

Like you said, people come into the fellowship with different levels of desperateness, and they grasp something offered to them by their then sponsor. They hold on to that. They get rigid and parrot what their sponsor told them and what they understood out of that. It works for many people. Then there are those recalcitrant those who don't want to accept that, may or may not be that desperate. But if all they here is "if you don't pick up you wont get drunk" thats a choice. We don't need the 12 steps. Thats why we have the text book that talks about all 3 aspects of the disease. Of course the spiritual and mental part of the disease is subtle and the craving part is the one obvious. And most alcoholics read the 5 types in the doctors opinion and they dont read the "men and women drink for the effect ....." paragraph and come to a conclusion all there is the craving part. If you just move over to the chapters, the whole section put-together by the drunks is about the mind.

[desypete]

i would see an aa memeber who has been sober for 50 years one day a time which is amazing in its own right as how the hell do people get to be sober for that length of time and still be around the fellowship trying to help other new comers to do the same

Like you said, people come into the fellowship with different levels of desperateness, and they grasp something offered to them by their then sponsor. They hold on to that. They get rigid and parrot what their sponsor told them and what they understood out of that. It works for many people. Then there are those recalcitrant those who don't want to accept that, may or may not be that desperate. But if all they here is "if you don't pick up you wont get drunk" thats a choice. We don't need the 12 steps. Thats why we have the text book that talks about all 3 aspects of the disease. Of course the spiritual and mental part of the disease is subtle and the craving part is the one obvious. And most alcoholics read the 5 types in the doctors opinion and they dont read the "men and women drink for the effect ....." paragraph and come to a conclusion all there is the craving part. If you just move over to the chapters, the whole section put-together by the drunks is about the mind.

the mind of a normal person who doesn't drink like me is much the same, they can be very selfish, very manipulative, very greedy.
they can also think about drink or be in the mad rush for the weekend to arrive so they can drink and have fun as to them drink will be fun for them even if they do end up drunk they can still have fun as they dont end up insanely drunk like i would should i take a drink

i came to aa with a drink problem as it had caused so much destruction in my life. i didn't come to aa because i was always thinking about it, or drink was always on my mind
i came to aa as there was no where else i could go
the day i forget that hopeless state i was in would be the day i start the road to living in my own world again that i create

if you look to the bible and the church you can see very simliar lines on our aa recovery in terms of a preacher in a church reads a lesson from the bible as the bible is full of lessons for the human being to try be better people
in aa we share our lessons we have learned, we share our experiences and in turn they very often help someone else get a better view of themselves more than anything else
i have had to learn or try to learn what love is and that is right out of the bible and when i read the passage of Corinthians which say what love is i cringed as my love was the exact opposite to how they describe

anyway the point i am trying to make is dont get confused with human conditions of selfishness which is a human trait not just alcoholic as the alcoholic when they take that first drink will end up drunk as a skunk hence the book says go out and try some controlled drinking as they know a real alcoholic can not drink normally

so to highlight the damage taking just one drink can do to a real alcoholic is of paramount importance otherwise they might well come to believe there recovered one day and able to take that first drink which of course we all know is nonsense to a real alcoholic as they can not take that drink and get away with it for long

[desypete]

i ment to post this here and ended up posting it in an other thread

But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
Here is a fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk.

hence we try to highlight just what can happen once they take that first drink, they will end up insanely drunk again, and wake up to god knows what ?
all because they picked up that first drink and they didnt know it was the first one that did the damage
in the alcoholics mind it would be the 10th drink that caused all the problems. if only i could stop before i got to number 10 or 15 or more

if i could stop drinking or control myself in my drink i certainly wouldn't need aa help that is for sure. if all my problem was that i thought about having a few drinks all the time then i wouldn't need help really as its not that much of a problem

but if i take a drink and the drink takes me then look out world there is a loony on the lose and god knows what the hell the outcome would be as i certainly wouldnt set out to cause anyone any harm or ruin anyones night
but 9 times out of 10 i would wake up in the mornings hungs over and trying to remember what i had done with such fear inside of me that i would be sick out of worry and shame and remorse

there just the early symptoms before my drinking had progressed to 24 / 7 drunken oblivion if people are lucky they will come to aa and find out there just like us and be able to make sure those horrible things that are waiting for them never can happen so long as they dont pick up that first drink and there willing to do what the rest of us have done ie get a sponsor, do the steps, live the steps, then they will never need to be in a postion where there saying to themselves i must not pick up that first drink as all that thinking and obsessing will have long gone

in its place will come peace of mind, peace inside of themselves and a willingness to think of others ahead of themselves just like the promise predict will happen will happen
but it all starts from the new comer having to first get to understand they dont have to pick up that first drink there is another way

[avaneesh912]

anyway the point i am trying to make is dont get confused with human conditions of selfishness which is a human trait not just alcoholic as the alcoholic when they take that first drink will end up drunk as a skunk hence the book says go out and try some controlled drinking as they know a real alcoholic can not drink normally

They know no good alcoholic is going to agree to stop. So they first ask you to test the craving part.

There is another test the books suggests, few sentences later. Try to stay way from alcohol for a year. Read it for yourself.

[desypete]

anyway the point i am trying to make is dont get confused with human conditions of selfishness which is a human trait not just alcoholic as the alcoholic when they take that first drink will end up drunk as a skunk hence the book says go out and try some controlled drinking as they know a real alcoholic can not drink normally

They know no good alcoholic is going to agree to stop. So they first ask you to test the craving part.

There is another test the books suggests, few sentences later. Try to stay way from alcohol for a year. Read it for yourself.

they know that the illusion that we can drink like anyone else has to be smashed try reading chapter 3 and understanding just how that mental side the obsession of trying to drink like a normal drinker is spelled out
the point is clear they take a drink and we all know what happens next

so its clear in the first part of the book they are trying to get readers to identify themselves if they can and make it clear that they will always end up a drunk should they take a drink

they dont go and on and on about the thinking of the drink as everyone in the world can at times think of having a drink, or think of the pleasure a nice drink can bring
what there clear on is just how alcohol effects real alcoholics and them trying to make others awars of this problem about what happens when they take that drink

we need to understand and believe that alcohol has that effect on us we need to be convinced to our innermost selves that booze is no good at all for us and give up the madness of trying it over and over again and expecting a different outcome which is just insanity like it describes

the jay walker fits me and my thinking and situation like a glove also
as what kind of nutter would go out throw themselves in front of moving traffic and not expect to end up hurt or maybe even killed ? then when there in hospital recovering and promising all who love them they will never do it again and mean it, then get out of hospital and have another go at jay walking

they must be totally crackers to do that wouldn't they ?
its one of the best examples i can think of to describe the madness of me to others if i were to pick up a drink, as anyone can understand a jay walker must have a mental disorder to get his kick from that
yet they stuggle to see someone who takes a drink and causes all sorts of harm and danger in the same light. as to them we are normal human beings which we are, its just booze has that effect on us that we change, the dr Jekyll and mr Hyde comes into play

[Brock]

so long as they dont pick up that first drink and there willing to do what the rest of us have done ie get a sponsor, do the steps, live the steps, then they will never need to be in a postion where there saying to themselves i must not pick up that first drink as all that thinking and obsessing will have long gone
in its place will come peace of mind, peace inside of themselves and a willingness to think of others ahead of themselves just like the promise predict will happen will happen
but it all starts from the new comer having to first get to understand they dont have to pick up that first drink there is another way

Very good, what we have been trying to say all along, forgive me underlining it. Nobody ever said ‘stay away from the first drink’ is a bad idea, we said over and over, that we are against people saying that and not including the rest, the solution.

[avaneesh912]

its one of the best examples i can think of to describe the madness of me to others if i were to pick up a drink, as anyone can understand a jay walker must have a mental disorder to get his kick from that

The Jaywalker parable is to show that we have similar traits. He runs in front of the on coming traffic and we keep picking up. Consequences don't crowd our mind.

You are right about the mental disorder. We WILL pick up unless we come to realization that we need power to stay stopped. For sanity to be restored. There is a period of grace where the new comer floats around just with the power of the fellowship. But its a dangerous phase of recovery.

[desypete]

its one of the best examples i can think of to describe the madness of me to others if i were to pick up a drink, as anyone can understand a jay walker must have a mental disorder to get his kick from that

The Jaywalker parable is to show that we have similar traits. He runs in front of the on coming traffic and we keep picking up. Consequences don't crowd our mind.

You are right about the mental disorder. We WILL pick up unless we come to realization that we need power to stay stopped. For sanity to be restored. There is a period of grace where the new comer floats around just with the power of the fellowship. But its a dangerous phase of recovery.

you will be telling me next that to tell a new comer to do 90 meetings in 90 days is dangerous

its interesting to wonder why you would try to think having the power of the fellowship is in anyway a danger ?

[D'oh]

you will be telling me next that to tell a new comer to do 90 meetings in 90 days is dangerous

its interesting to wonder why you would try to think having the power of the fellowship is in anyway a danger ?

Lack of the Fellowship was a very big part of my slip. Not attending meetings, my HP never once called me on the phone.

I can mold bereaving that My Will is somehow my HP's will. The Fellowship, brings me back to reality.

[desypete]

you will be telling me next that to tell a new comer to do 90 meetings in 90 days is dangerous

its interesting to wonder why you would try to think having the power of the fellowship is in anyway a danger ?

Lack of the Fellowship was a very big part of my slip. Not attending meetings, my HP never once called me on the phone.

I can mold bereaving that My Will is somehow my HP's will. The Fellowship, brings me back to reality.

without a doubt the fellowship brings me back to reality without it i would be left to my own head which is no good for me at the best of times and never has been

same thing goes for my sponsor although i dont need him these days like i once did when learning how to live with this madness and mood swings etc
but if ever i am in limbo i dont hesitate to give him a call
it took me a long time to get the courage to use the phone in the fellowship its yet another tool to use that can help big time but my head would tell me not to call as i might be imposing or whatever else excuse my head would think of

today i wouldn't think twice about calling him if i needed it the difference is i can sit down and look at whats going on myself and find a solution to most of my problems that might be going on in a calm manner
not the madman running around like a bull in a china shop all because there is no milk in the fridge

thankfully with the help of our fellowship and the people in it who have shown me by there own example i have come to the conclusion that those guys are right and i am wrong so i try today to do what is suggested as i have a firm belief these days that it really does work
but i have to work it

i think we might of gone off topic here lol

[avaneesh912]

you will be telling me next that to tell a new comer to do 90 meetings in 90 days is dangerous

its interesting to wonder why you would try to think having the power of the fellowship is in anyway a danger ?

I would ask him to go to meetings, but the one thing i will also do is, spend 2 minutes and show him page 24. And if he is a chronic relapser also show him the Car salesman story.

[avaneesh912]

Not attending meetings, my HP never once called me on the phone.

Who persuaded you not to go to meetings?

[avaneesh912]

you will be telling me next that to tell a new comer to do 90 meetings in 90 days is dangerous

its interesting to wonder why you would try to think having the power of the fellowship is in anyway a danger ?

I realize you have a pre-set ideas and you keep arguing. I didn't mean to say meetings are dangerous. I meant the state of the alcoholic, in the early phase is a very fragile stage. He needs all the power. Fellowship and and also guidance from others on how to get to that power the book talks about.