‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

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‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Brock » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:15 am

Where I live we don’t have rehab facilities of the type which exist in the US, and other developed countries. The other day on a 12 step call at a local hospital, an AA friend of mine advised a person, who tried AA and left after a couple of months, (which I and several others I know did as well), that he must go to a rehab in the US for treatment. He can’t really afford it, but the AA member said he has friends who are fairly well off he can ask for assistance with the cost.

I felt this approach wrong and wanted to explain why, firstly I think he shouldn’t be asking others to pay for it, but also I have heard reports mainly here, of things which are taught in rehabs, which go against the principles of AA as taught in regular meetings.

Can others say what are the ‘bad habits’ or things that patients learn at rehabs, which we in AA then have to correct, (if there are any). This will help me with my discussion now, and in future, in explaining to locals the pros and cons of rehab treatment US style.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Greywolf » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:39 am

Brock wrote:Where I live we don’t have rehab facilities of the type which exist in the US, and other developed countries. The other day on a 12 step call at a local hospital, an AA friend of mine advised a person, who tried AA and left after a couple of months, (which I and several others I know did as well), that he must go to a rehab in the US for treatment. He can’t really afford it, but the AA member said he has friends who are fairly well off he can ask for assistance with the cost.


What does "tried AA for a couple of months" mean? Does it mean critique anything and everything, deciding what you don't and do approve of? Or does it mean "completely giving yourself to this simple program," following the suggestions, going to any lengths, perhaps start taking the steps, etc? I want even ask if he got a sponsor.

Assuming you know more about getting sober, recovering, and achieving permanent sobriety than AA members do, is not exactly what I would call "trying AA."

Brock wrote:I felt this approach wrong and wanted to explain why, firstly I think he shouldn’t be asking others to pay for it, but also I have heard reports mainly here, of things which are taught in rehabs, which go against the principles of AA as taught in regular meetings.

When most alcoholics go to treatment somebody else pays for it. There is no moral high ground here.

We used to have a saying when I was more active in AA than I am now, "'The first thing to do when somebody gets out of treatment, is help them recover from treatment." Sounds like there is a real need for "treatment for treatment" where you are. I will say this, to disabuse someone from treatment may take a little bit of straight talk and a dose of tough love. You have to breakthrough the crust of "yeah, yeah, I know. I know." Unfortunately you will likely need the assistance of some crusty old-timer you likely won't find in e-AA.

Brock wrote:Can others say what are the ‘bad habits’ or things that patients learn at rehabs, which we in AA then have to correct, (if there are any). This will help me with my discussion now, and in future, in explaining to locals the pros and cons of rehab treatment US style.

My attitude about treatment developed over the 55 years that I have seen their results is very bad. THEY call it treatment; I call it very expensive medically supervised detox with psycho-babble thrown in to justify the cost. If treatment did not make getting off the sauce so painless, there would be less relapse and less going back for what they call treatment.

There is more to AA than working the steps. Read what Bill W. has to say about it in the BB. The purpose of AA is not to study the BB as many think.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Blue Moon » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:48 am

Brock wrote:he must go to a rehab in the US for treatment


AA runs 0 rehab facilities, so the individual is not passing along any AA message. As such, any funding he can secure is an outside issue where AA is concerned.

Furthermore, rehab facilities do not offer to send recovered alcoholics back into the community. They release detoxed alcoholics who then need to do something to avoid needing another detox.

The “habits” are as varied as the number of rehab facilities. IME they typically fall into 1 of 2 categories: 1. the individual believing that AA is group therapy where all ills and none should be brought for “sharing”, and 2. the individual genuinely believing that they had taken the 4th and 5th Steps while still checked out of reality on benzodiazepines to combat the DTs.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby positrac » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:59 am

I went to rehab in April 1990 after 6 months sober and my experience was because I was in the service we had a controlled environment until we had our weekends out and then we had to submit to tests to see if we used and or did drugs and for me it was just part of the deal. We hit meetings every night of the week all over in Oakland and Berkeley and quite educational and it was just a tool for me when I got out.

What the hardest part of rehab for me and I know others is once we leave a controlled environment we are now at the mercy of the world and those temptations and many fall victim to the pressures of real life under real time terms.

Seems in our current climate is that AA is not necessary to get sober and these rehabs are a cash cows because many insurances pay out for this treatment and many are like 5 star resorts. I've said I'd like to go there just to unwind and relax! I am not sure if sobriety is even really pushed and more meditation and other mental drills on will power and this is my opinion! I could be wrong and thus I learn.

Who pays? well it is not like we are self supporting like in the rooms and so if someone opts to pay then that person had better suck it up and attend and do what is right and not be an idiot and leave when it ain't going there way! Goals are to get sober, stay sober, learn to live under the life's policy of life's terms and know it is not a fair shake for people like us. We can overcome and achieve many life goals if we just have the desire. Maybe not what expected to hear on this topic. I like to reflect on my past because it reminds me of where I've been and where I am today and it is amazing and it was not all of my doing, as much as the tools I learned along the way. Food for thought for those who are skeptics because 28 plus years ago I wasn't worth much as a person and I am on the downside of my career and closer to retirement!
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby 1Peter5:10 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:32 am

Blue Moon wrote:
AA runs 0 rehab facilities, so the individual is not passing along any AA message. As such, any funding he can secure is an outside issue where AA is concerned. . . .


It is absolutely correct that AA runs zero rehabs. Moreover AA does not endorse any particular rehab over another.

That said, I probably would not be alive today (I am approaching two years sober), had it not been for the 103 days I spent in two different rehabs back-to-back.

Yes, many rehabs are insurance mills, but even those provide a safe secure chemical free atmosphere, and for hard cases such as myself, it's a lot easier to clean up there, safely away from all the resentments, triggers and everyday problems that one would have encountered trying to clean up at home, in prison or on the street.

Bad habits? Yeah no matter how low you have fallen, when you go to rehab you will encounter someone who has fallen further. From them you can learn many things, not all of them are helpful.
Yes, some people in rehab are already planning their next relapse. Some are just going through the motions to please the court or their family.

I cannot make a blanket statement about rehabs generally. But I can tell you without a doubt that rehab saved my life.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Roberth » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:55 am

Bad habits from rehab? I say nay nay. Whether rehab are good or bad is really none of our business. The bad habits are pushing what we do onto outside enterprises.

The 6th tradition: An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

Somehow are 12 step work has turned into collecting sponsees. Does anyone work with wet drunks anymore or do we just ask if they have insurance and send them to a rehab.

Personally the only rehab I have been to, was to carry AA message into . Luckily when I got sober they were still going on wet calls. The kind of calls where someone would the end up on my sofa with a bucket and a beer to get through the night. The habits I was taught was to carry extra trash can liner in my van. The trash can that got it nic-name of the new comer bucket.

Go ahead and keep shipping them off to rehab but you will be missing so much of what we are about. There are plenty of wet ones out there just go down to your local Skid Row.

well so much for my rant :mrgreen:
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby positrac » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:50 am

Those old 12 step calls were enlightening to say the least and scared me stiff because no one ever thinks they can go to that level when they start drinking.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Layne » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:27 am

Pros to rehab: they get a person dry
Cons: they can't make a person recover
Corrections or bad habits: best found in the mirror of self reflection
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Blue Moon » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:12 pm

1Peter5:10 wrote:I can tell you without a doubt that rehab saved my life.


I don’t doubt. I sobered up near a place called the “Sedman Unit” in Dorset England, a resource centre basically offering structured daytime cognitive therapy for drug addicts and alcoholics. This unit was quite famous across the region, and spawned something like 14 treatment centres within a square mile. That was a double-edged sword for AA. AA meetings in that town itself were no-go areas if you wanted to recover, as nobody could even sit still for an hour, and almost none could meet the guideline to become a GSR. However, those who did want to recover migrated to meetings in the town where I lived to hear a recovery message.

So it was invaluable: we often had a high proportion of newcomers with a desire to stop drinking, yet without nearly so much of the disruption that was driving them out of their home town.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Greywolf » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:42 pm

Blue Moon wrote:
1Peter5:10 wrote:I can tell you without a doubt that rehab saved my life.


I don’t doubt. I sobered up near a place called the “Sedman Unit” in Dorset England, a resource centre basically offering structured daytime cognitive therapy for drug addicts and alcoholics. This unit was quite famous across the region, and spawned something like 14 treatment centres within a square mile. That was a double-edged sword for AA. AA meetings in that town itself were no-go areas if you wanted to recover, as nobody could even sit still for an hour, and almost none could meet the guideline to become a GSR. However, those who did want to recover migrated to meetings in the town where I lived to hear a recovery message.

So it was invaluable: we often had a high proportion of newcomers with a desire to stop drinking, yet without nearly so much of the disruption that was driving them out of their home town.

Sounds like AA Utopia. Your results must rival those reported for the first years of AA -- as reported in the Forward to the 2nd Edition -- 50% never drank again, 25% did research before coming back and got permanent sobriety.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:00 am

which go against the principles of AA as taught in regular meetings


Its irreversible. When I try to work with people especially those chronic relapsers, I try educate them of the 3 parts of the disease. The mind being the main problem of the alcoholic. If they could relate, fine, otherwise, its very hard to continue. Perhaps few more attempts (if they don't die) will make them realize they have to let go most of what they learned in the facility. This is one hellaofa disease. And there is no guarantee that once they accepts the concepts, its all going to work out. There is lot of effort that individual needs to put in this.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Spirit Flower » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:14 am

When I got sober, there were very few treatment centers and very few had insurance to cover it. So we sat on our hands in AA meetings. I think the basic weakness of all treatment is that you have to leave it; and you don't know how to take care of yourself. From what I have seen of half way houses, they are dangerous and usually somebody who lives there is using. While you are sitting on your hands in AA meetings, you are facing down your demons. This is an invaluable experience and leaves you stronger.

Drug addict kids spend many months in treatment only to use soon after they get out. All that money for nothing.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Greywolf » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:04 am

Brock wrote:...but also I have heard reports mainly here, of things which are taught in rehabs, which go against the principles of AA as taught in regular meetings.

Brock, Many things are learned in AA meetings but nothing I know of is ever taught in AA meetings. I believe that if you leave out the "as taught in regular meetings." you could be absolutely correct.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Brock » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:45 am

Brock, Many things are learned in AA meetings but nothing I know of is ever taught in AA meetings. I believe that if you leave out the "as taught in regular meetings." you could be absolutely correct.

I am not particularly interested in being ‘correct,’ but the trusty Oxford English Dictionary does give one definition of teach or taught like this - “Cause (someone) to learn or understand something by example or experience.” Sounds a lot like AA to me.

Thanks to all those who gave opinions on the pros and cons of modern day rehab, it was educational for me and I expect other readers here. We get many more readers than ‘posters,’ and those who may be looking for sobriety and perhaps considering rehab, will know of the possible pitfalls to look out for. In particular what Spirit Flower said in one sentence, seems to sum up the general feeling - “I think the basic weakness of all treatment is that you have to leave it; and you don't know how to take care of yourself.” Perhaps a combination of rehab and real world living, (maybe not in half way houses), including regular AA meetings, might help overcome this problem.

The comments given here will help me advise locals if they ask, before forking out big bucks in attending US rehab facilities.
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Re: ‘Bad’ Habits From Rehab?

Postby Greywolf » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:46 pm

Brock wrote:
Brock, Many things are learned in AA meetings but nothing I know of is ever taught in AA meetings. I believe that if you leave out the "as taught in regular meetings." you could be absolutely correct.

Brock wrote:I am not particularly interested in being ‘correct,’ but the trusty Oxford English Dictionary does give one definition of teach or taught like this - “Cause (someone) to learn or understand something by example or experience.” Sounds a lot like AA to me.

For somebody not interested in being correct, you just bent over backwards to prove yourself correct. Sounds a lot like an alcoholic to me. =biggrin
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