if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disrespect

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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby tomsteve » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:59 pm

KrisF wrote: Question: "If the Bible says that God gave us free will, why does AA tell us to do God's will?"
.
Thanks!

kind of strange( or misleading) to title the thread
if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disrespect


then go on to ask this.
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:37 am

yes, good point. Keep doing your will. some are, destroying the world. they dont have a drinking problem. so its very difficult for them to realize that. something disastrous needs to happen so they can awaken. All we have to do is party hard, if you are drug user, you get their quick.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby D'oh » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:24 am

Being convinced, we were at step three, which is that we decided to turn our will and our life over to God as we understood Him. Just what do we mean by that, and just what do we do?
The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. Most people try to live by self-propulsion. Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way. If his arrangements would only stay put, if only people would do as he wished, the show would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.
PG.60 & 61

I have always said that the reading of "How it Works" at Most Meetings, stops too soon. "Our Will" and living in it, is what has got us here. Though the Steps, we can learn how to "Our Will" in tune with what "His Will" would be for us.

On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all God gave us brains to use. Our thought-life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.
PG. 85
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby PaigeB » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:33 am

Acceptance is the answer... surrender if you like that word. Come over to the winning side?

Cease fighting... Love & tolerance is our code... be it a secret code ring or a legal statute type of a code.

Do the next right thing and then trust that you have done your best. You can do better tomorrow if need be.

Practicing Love in all things no matter whose "will" it is, sounds like a pretty good life. :idea:
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby kdub720 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:26 am

That is right. Make wise choices and good decisions. Living Gods will is to live as a great person that God created us to be. Its gotta be about our fullest potential as individual.
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby desypete » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:50 pm

the told me if i dont believe in god then put another o in the word and believe in good

today i understand it fully now when it come to my will or the will that is good
my will gets me into trouble, my will never really thinks of anyone else, my will is when i believe i know all there is to know, my will is when i think everyone else is wrong and i will go to any lengths to prove my will is right

the good will is simple dont try to be any of the above =biggrin as a reward i can live a decent peaceful existence but it takes work daily to learn new habits and to adapt to a new way of living
aa has made this possible for me and the people in the rooms have helped me hugely, without there help i would still be like i would always be, a know all, who doesn't need there help

i to didnt like going to meetings at one time but i had to drag myself there at times more so when my head was telling me i dont need to go there anymore, i had to learn how to practise opposites of what my head told me

and very reluctantly i had to get a sponsor and start my journey on the steps and i never wanted to do them at all

i was scared of step 5, i was scared i would change into some kind of priest, i wanted to keep many of my old ways of life like controlling people etc so the steps were a no no to me
but being sober and around the rooms for a couple of years my life did change for the good as i wasnt a drunken bum anymore, i wasnt getting arrested anymore i got my kids back and a job and a car etc
but i was still unhappy and never content with just how my life is i still wanted more and i wanted excitement as i thrived on it

if i had nothing to look forward to i would be unhappy and feel depressed, which would make me not want to do anything at all but sit in my own misery and low mood, until it would pass or i would find something that would get me excited again

the only thing i got right in my early years in aa was i kept on coming back no matter how i felt
it took me a long time to get on the program but i still kept on coming back to the rooms i never let them drift away as i was convinced if i stop going to aa then i would soon find myself picking up a drink again
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby God is great » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:06 pm

Seriously people have you looked back on your responses. Reread what you have said. By beginning your lengthy explanations with 'this is only my opinion' then launching in to your garble gunk of thinking you have the truth only proves that you have no clue. Why can't members just say 'I don't know' those are the mysteries of God. Stop confusing other members with your little theories that have been recycled from decades of AA. The literature tells us 'We are not allied with any sect, denomination, politics etc so please stop using the old I am better because I am spiritual not religious argument. Especially to reference it in the way that you have. We don't discuss these things and the fact that you have means you have not read the history of AA. If you believe in the program then you wouldn't be involving yourself in the tiresome AA activity of bad bad Religion - don't forget most AA meetings happen in the basements of churches.
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby Brock » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:15 am

I have tried a couple of other online sites, but my feeling was they were over moderated, if someone even offered a different point of view, some moderator would say they shouldn't start an argument. I found here a much more open minded forum, and over the years have enjoyed back and forth discussions which got a little heated at times, and I learned a lot from these.

But like any site, this one also has guidelines, the principle ones being six items found under the heading “Start Here.” The second item on that list says this -
We offer our own ES&H and avoid critiquing the shares of others.

We ask all who post to keep this in mind.
The seed has been planted in his mind. He knows that thousands of men, much like himself, have recovered. B.B. P.113
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby Patsy© » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:40 am

KrisF wrote:Hello, I'm a grateful member of AA and my higher power is God. Someone asked this question last night and although i've been sober for some time, I didn't know how to answer it... perhaps you guys can help. Question: "If the Bible says that God gave us free will, why does AA tell us to do God's will?"
I know for me my will always got me in trouble and I also believe God (or higher power) watched over me and led me to AA. But this question still kinda confuses me. I'd appreciate your wisdom in answering.
Thanks!


Hi Kris,

AA doesn't tell us to do or not do anything :)

AA is all inclusive, never exclusive....so its nice to think of the Bible for your own recovery, that is your choice. And if AA's 12 steps give us something, its the ability to make CHOICES.

Having said that, I would suggest that you take a good look at Step 3:

Step Three "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him."

For this alkie, because of my own self-will run riot (doing it MY WAY)... I lost the ability to choose.

In Step 3 it says: ....Made a decision... to turn our Will (Our Thinking).... and our Lives (Our Actions).... over to the care of God as we understood Him.

When I had lost the ability to choose to NOT drink alcohol, my thinking and my actions were driven by the obsession of the mind and self-will. When I got to Alcoholics Anonymous and began the 12 steps, one of the vital things that I recognized immediately is that MY WAY....stopped working a very long time before I got to AA. Yes, my Thinking and my Actions were, for the lack of a better word...sick, very very sick. I didn't care who I had to hurt, including myself...to get what I Needed....a DRINK!

There is mans will and there is God Will. And yes, God gave each of us Free Will. What did I do with that wonderful gift that God gave me? I abused it and used it to justify, rationalize and excuse all kinds of incorrect thinking, words, actions and deeds.

It doesn't say that we become zombies! What the Big Books suggests is that we ALIGN our self-will WITH God's Will. So that the selfish, self-centered, and dishonest Thinking and Actions can be Aligned with God's Will and Changed.

We are not bad people trying to get good, we are sick people trying to get better....one step at a time, one day at a time....with the help of God's Will, AA's 12 steps and the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. Thank You God!
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby desypete » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:43 pm

God is great wrote:Seriously people have you looked back on your responses. Reread what you have said. By beginning your lengthy explanations with 'this is only my opinion' then launching in to your garble gunk of thinking you have the truth only proves that you have no clue. Why can't members just say 'I don't know' those are the mysteries of God. Stop confusing other members with your little theories that have been recycled from decades of AA. The literature tells us 'We are not allied with any sect, denomination, politics etc so please stop using the old I am better because I am spiritual not religious argument. Especially to reference it in the way that you have. We don't discuss these things and the fact that you have means you have not read the history of AA. If you believe in the program then you wouldn't be involving yourself in the tiresome AA activity of bad bad Religion - don't forget most AA meetings happen in the basements of churches.


many aa meetings take place in nut house wards in hospitals also, its no wonder i feel at home in those meetings =biggrin
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby Patsy© » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:14 pm

Quote desypete: "many aa meetings take place in nut house wards in hospitals also, its no wonder i feel at home in those meetings =biggrin"

I love it... :lol:
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby Soberguy27 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:10 am

Here's my two cents on this. The God tbat most people here are referring to is tbe christian god or at keast it sounds that way to me when we reference the bible. BillW and Dr. Bob knew better than to define what god means to each member thus the underlining of the words as we understood him. As an atheist the aa program works for me as I think of a higher power as being good orderly direction. In other words the world has a natural flow of positive and negative. When I go against this flow meaning the negative I get negative results. I use good orderly direction or god or higher power to guide me and point me in the right direction. It is then up to me to take action upon those directions.
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby Patsy© » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:25 pm

Soberguy27 wrote:Here's my two cents on this. The God tbat most people here are referring to is tbe christian god or at keast it sounds that way to me when we reference the bible. BillW and Dr. Bob knew better than to define what god means to each member thus the underlining of the words as we understood him. As an atheist the aa program works for me as I think of a higher power as being good orderly direction. In other words the world has a natural flow of positive and negative. When I go against this flow meaning the negative I get negative results. I use good orderly direction or god or higher power to guide me and point me in the right direction. It is then up to me to take action upon those directions.


Hi Soberguy,

For me, I am not referring to a Christian God or the Bible. The God of my own understanding is the Universe, which I choose to call God. When I first got sober it was the Ocean :) I love Good Orderly Direction, if it works for you, then it works.

I have a Higher Power in my life today, and its not the ocean anymore, and its not the God of my childhood. I have a Higher Power that is kind, compassionate, loving, and accepting, and today I choose to call my Higher Power God.

I try to keep it simple when sharing with a newcomer.... the Sky, the Sun, a Mountain, the Universe, or yes, even the ocean is certainly a power much greater than we are. Its our own concept of a Power greater than, and I suggest to newcomers that if they don't like mine, his or hers, then simply choose one of their own :)
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby clouds » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:22 am

Yes, important words Patsy, and to follow along on that analogy when I'm feeling spiritually depleted I ask myself;

" Now what do really want? Just a tank or the whole ocean?"
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.
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Re: if God gave free will to us, why do his will? (no disres

Postby Patsy© » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:37 am

clouds wrote:Yes, important words Patsy, and to follow along on that analogy when I'm feeling spiritually depleted I ask myself;

" Now what do really want? Just a tank or the whole ocean?"


Well, for myself, a tank isn't a power greater than I am....I can just unplug a tank or even empty it.

Now...an Ocean? THAT is a power greater than I am. =biggrin
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