There is A solution

The book Alcoholics Anonymous, aka The Big Book, is the basic text for the AA program of sobriety. "Alcoholics Anonymous" Copyright 2012 AAWS, Inc. All Rights, Reserved. Short excerpts used by permission of AAWS

There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:16 pm

Just so people don't get mistaken, Bill W makes it crystal clear by re-stating the title of the chapter "There is A Solution" on Page 25. And right away he says "almost none of us liked the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation.

Then he says we have been rocketed into the 4th dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed.

More promises:

That we have had deep and effective spiritual experiences* which have revolutionized our whole attitude toward life, toward our fellows and toward God's universe. The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous. He has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves.

Again he talks about 'if we have crossed that line" there is no middle of the road solution since we have passed into the region from which there is no return through human aid.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PaigeB » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:48 am

There are hundreds of paths up the mountain,
All leading to the same place,
So it doesn't matter which path you take.
The only person wasting time
Is the one who runs around the mountain
Telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.

~Hindu Proverb~

The Steps are the best path available to alcoholics. Some have been blessed by their HP with recovery no matter what or how or if they did the Steps. Personally, I did the Steps. Even against my will and my better judgment, I managed to have a personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism and I have had a change in the way I react to life. I could not have (would not have) done it without AA.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:59 pm

i am not sure why you keep throwing this then?
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby D'oh » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:23 pm

Thanks Paige.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby ezdzit247 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:39 pm

PaigeB wrote:
There are hundreds of paths up the mountain,
All leading to the same place,
So it doesn't matter which path you take.
The only person wasting time
Is the one who runs around the mountain
Telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.

~Hindu Proverb~

The Steps are the best path available to alcoholics. Some have been blessed by their HP with recovery no matter what or how or if they did the Steps. Personally, I did the Steps. Even against my will and my better judgment, I managed to have a personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism and I have had a change in the way I react to life. I could not have (would not have) done it without AA.


I agree. Thanks again for sharing that proverb with us, Paige.
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: There is A solution

Postby D'oh » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:58 pm

The Humility, as they wrote on the last page of How They Recovered.

Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order.
pg. 164

May I always be Open to interruptions, differing views and insights, I don't necessarily have to use them, but may I never shut the door on it.

The Book is my guide, but these words say "With God's guidance, they may be more"
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PuppyEars » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:59 pm

May I always be Open to interruptions, differing views and insights, I don't necessarily have to use them, but may I never shut the door on it.

Spot on. Even to this day, if I have a conversation with someone who keeps quoting bible scriptures, I put the cotton in my ears. The scriptures may have the person living saint-like, but I guess the humble approach is I am just not ready for that message so I just can't hear it. In my head the monkey is rattling the cage "what was your experience? Why are you throwing the book at me?".
So I politely say no thanks and shut the door on the door knockers spitting scripture. Maybe I am wrong for that.

The other thing I wanted to put out there is so what if George M. from Kentucky learned how to make amends in the rooms and now badly damaged relations are repaired for him. Maybe God sent him to AA to just stop drinking and make amends. I am happy for you George.
All that "you are not one of us" ra- ra sh!t only feeds my ego and honestly the slackers have not affected my progression.
Don't like the state of affairs in AA in your area? Make it better.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:00 am

Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order.


Boy, I thought, what discussed this in another topic. Let me try to explain what it is. Again people take things totally out of context.

So, if you see the way the book flows? The doctors opinion, There is a solution, More about alcoholism.......Working with Others?

This chapter about like the book says a Vision for you! Doh! For what? To be vibrant,"There you will find release from care, boredom and worry. Your imagination will be fired. Life will mean something at last. The most satisfactory years of your existence lie ahead. Thus we find the fellowship, and so will you."

The recovery part is prior chapters and they there is no doubt about it when they say "The answers will come, if your own house is in order" (inventory and coming out clean)

Again when they close:

Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny.

Now, meditate upon what you read.
Last edited by avaneesh912 on Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Brock » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:35 am

All that "you are not one of us" ra- ra sh!t only feeds my ego and honestly the slackers have not affected my progression.

It did not affect my progress much either, because I had gone so far down I had nowhere to go but up, or die. So do we do the selfish thing and say it didn't affect me so no problem, or the responsible thing, and see where it might affect the less desperate alcoholic, a fellow encouraged to take the easier softer way offered by the 'slackers.'
Don't like the state of affairs in AA in your area? Make it better.

Or speak about it in forums like these, and encourage others to listen to speakers like Chris R, who speak about it on you tube and other sites. So that responsible alcoholics in every area, might be more aware of the danger watered down messages pose, and either discourage others from passing this off as the program of AA, or at the very least be discouraged from doing so themselves.
The seed has been planted in his mind. He knows that thousands of men, much like himself, have recovered. B.B. P.113
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PuppyEars » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:55 am

All true but I am in the process of taking the Chris R cape off. It has me alienating people. His material is great for getting me amped up but he seems to forget that first of all, we had to quit playing God. That was his experience but not mine.
Sorry ave for sidetracking your topic. Any thing else I will move to pm's about Chris R.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PaigeB » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:41 am

I didn't need a tape of Chris R. ~ I met him in person and he signed my Big Book like a big shot. So did Meyers R. and Peter M. Got me a stamp too - the circle & triangle, cause we lost the copyright to them. They did a Big Book Workshop in my area in April of 2013.

Being in the same room with them, having never heard of them before but sensing some celebrity, I had expectations. They were vibrant! However I couldn't help but pay attention to my gut feeling that there was something "off". I didn't catch what it was, and I followed along with getting their business cards and emails and signatures and stamps.

At the time I had a sponsee who was a bit "brutally" honest. She opened up in the car on the way back across town and said that she did not like the workshop at all. That she wondered if they were even alcoholics because they were telling us what to DO and not very friendly. She said it felt like she was at work.

Fast forward to this last year of my life. I realized a guy with 30+ years of sobriety had taken to their message and dropped off meetings. His young son died in a horrible, weather related accident and he has made it an opportunity to make things better, so I thought he was just busy. Still though, I would see him and he always seemed stressed out on Sunday nights at his home group. I found out he had a little set of sponsees taking newcomers through the Steps all in one sitting or one weekend. And that many of them continued to pick up white chips. I do not know if this is related to the Chris R. trend or what. But I hope he comes back soon and tells us about the old timers who made him walk to meetings and stick his hand out in welcome to those who came in.

Me? I think Chris & Friends signed my Big Book so that I would remember MY experience. AA does not have ANY experts. I know I felt that following them was "none too smart" for me and I had to agree with my sponsee that we would NOT be taking their aggressive stance on the Big Book. That is my experience.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby D'oh » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:19 pm

Now, meditate upon what you read.


No problem I already have.

I think I stated that in my post.

May I always be Open to interruptions, differing views and insights, I don't necessarily have to use them, but may I never shut the door on it.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Brock » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:39 pm

I liked listening to speaker tapes in my first year or two, I still listen to them now and again. avaneesh introduced me to Chris R by PM when I was new, I am grateful for that because I didn't know of him at the time.
I realized a guy with 30+ years of sobriety had taken to their message and dropped off meetings.

I have never heard him, Myers or Peter M, recommend reducing the amount of meetings we should go to, but most certainly heard over and over about the type we should attend. Together with a lot of pleading to not engage in the type of behavior, that makes many discussion meetings, opportunities for some people to spout their personal problems. He screams into the mike, 'what the hell gives you the right to puke all over our meeting,' referring to the person who has had a bad day, and needs to “share” it.
I found out he had a little set of sponsees taking newcomers through the Steps all in one sitting or one weekend. And that many of them continued to pick up white chips. I do not know if this is related to the Chris R. trend or what.

I don't believe it is related. He speaks of being in and out of the program for seven years, before someone finally showed him what was required, two weeks later finishing his fifth step, and sitting on the tray of his pick up truck crying tears of joy because the obsession was lifted. He also says it's good to make the appointment for #5 when the sponsee starts #4, so they don't drag their heals. If they were doing the whole deal in a day or a weekend, appointments would hardly be required, so no, at least in the talks I have heard he doesn’t recommend this.
That she wondered if they were even alcoholics because they were telling us what to DO and not very friendly.

In my area sponsors don't like others recommending speaker tapes, we have seen here as well, at least on one occasion someone saying their sponsor forbid them to listen to any. In my opinion this is the other side of the argument, that some of these speakers are “telling us what to DO.” It's the side that the sponsor does not want anyone else telling their sponsee what to do, because that's their job, and when these people listen to others they just might tell their sponsor, “but Chris said we should do it another way.”
The seed has been planted in his mind. He knows that thousands of men, much like himself, have recovered. B.B. P.113
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:46 pm

AA does not have ANY experts. I know I felt that following them was "none too smart" for me and I had to agree with my sponsee that we would NOT be taking their aggressive stance on the Big Book. That is my experience.


If people get convinced that "they dont have a defense against that first drink" (page 24) and realize that it must come from the higher power (page 43), I bet that they will scoot up their willingness and at-least make an attempt in working the 12 steps and try to reach that place of neutrality the big book talks about.

Again goes back to are we showing the new comer all 3 aspects of the disease or are we just talking about powerlessness after we take the 1st drink? Big difference.

Now having worked/working the 12 steps, I could go to any place where liquor is served and experience the 10th step promise.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:53 pm

There was one segment of the talk that drove me home powerlessness. In that talk he talks about going into the 7/11 in the morning all cranky but later in the afternoon, he has a 6 pack in his hand and is already feeling well. Thats what alcoholism he pointed out. The state we are in when we are not drinking. I clicked for me. Its the spiritual malady I need to address.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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