I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

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Noels

Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by Noels » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:48 am

Hi Emerald your sounds a lot more 'together ' than the previous one so congratulations. Whatever you've been doing is working and showing. I was taught many many years ago that we are mirrors of each other in many instances and this situation seems to be one of those. It's very very possible that the new lady feels exactly the same way you do and you having longer sobriety should be the 'adult ' and apologise. But take it slow this time. You don't have to be 'besties ' with everyone at the group but be respectful and then let her be. Let her do her thing and concentrate on doing your own thing. Remember the step back.
So glad you joined us again. Good luck and keep us posted.
Love and light
Noels

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by Reborn » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:16 pm

emeraldg wrote:I apologize for not responding sooner- I have been away. Thank you sincerely to all who replied. I am NOT a troll but understand entirely why some of you may think this. I am very much struggling with this conflict with this former sponsee and am trying to seek out other objective, cross cultural/national etc opinions as my sponsor has guided me on this but I still struggle. For example, I am showing shunning behaviors toward this former sponsee as are some of the other people in the meeting because it appears that AA is low on her priority scale and does not go above and beyond whatsoever to help others.
Ok emerald I apologize for suggesting you may be a troll...the thing is the way you're posting about this person doesn't make sense to me. You have 6 years of sobriety...is this the first time you've experienced this type of situation? Instead of shunning this person why not show love to her...show her that she is welcome...even if she doesn't want you as a sponsor. You have to remember that you are infact reacting to this situation in a negative manner. We have to do the next right thing even when we don't want to...nothing changes if nothing changes. As far as helping others...."you cannot transmit something you haven't got" (page 164)...maybe all she has to offer right now is bringing treats to the meeting...doing readings etc...at least she's still there. As a person who has had a spiritual awakening as the result of the steps I do my best to carry this message....it is not up to me when or who will finally hear a solution...but it is my responsibility to suit up/show up and give the newcomers some hope. I'm not saying that you are completely at fault in this situation but you do play a part....if you want these feelings to change...simply stop doing the things you're doing and be willing to do something different.
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132

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ezdzit247
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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by ezdzit247 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:47 pm

emeraldg wrote: I am NOT a troll but understand entirely why some of you may think this....
Really?

From Wikipedia:
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, often for their own amusement.


You've started six threads in this forum and all of them are about you dishing gossip about fictional family or AA members. This is a recovery forum for REAL people who have experienced REAL problems with drugs and/or alcohol and are searching for a REAL solution to their problems. You don't talk the talk OR walk the walk of anyone with 1 day let alone 6 years of recovery from anything. Time to bail, troll.
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Noels

Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by Noels » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:35 pm

Good morning ..... what a beautiful morning it is once again. Brand new and with so many possibilities. Yesterday is old news and tomorrow may never be so today is all ive got. Wonderfull to know I can start a new life every day if I so choose.

Lets not forget that our disease is not only the alcohol. It is the combination of alcohol AND the " obsessive mind ".

Sometimes me think that old timers eventually forget to read the entire big book and concentrate only on the steps.

Have an awesome day, be blessed and be everything that you are and possibly can still can be.

mwah xxx

love and light
Noels

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by Reborn » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:08 am

Ok here is some big book for you...

page 62...

Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.

So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have liked to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God's help.


This is what I see going on here...selfishness and self-centeredness. Until this person can get out of self there is no hope here. I'm not sure why you continue to defend this person but when I look back on this thread "the old timers" are giving solid advice. For someone with 6 years of sobriety to act this way I have to wonder if she has actually experienced spiritual awakening or "psychic change(doctors opinion).

One more thing from the big book page 65-66...

The first thing apparent was that this world and its people were often quite wrong. To conclude that others were wrong was as far as most of us ever got. The usual outcome was that people continued to wrong us and we stayed sore. Sometimes it was remorse and then we were sore at ourselves. But the more we fought and tried to have our own way, the worse matters got. As in war, the victor only seemed to win. Our moments of triumph were short-lived

Things to ponder...
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132

Noels

Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by Noels » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:08 pm

Hi Reborn, thanks for the reply. I view things a bit different to most people. I have a tendency to ask myself " how would my God respond " if he was answering me. I also have this belief that as we all come from pure love we are at our core only love. We sometimes just need to be reminded of it so we can remember that and by remembering that we will remember who we actually are.
I had many physical spiritual experiences since the age of 13. After doing my 3rd step prayer last year for the first time with aa though the experience I had was being filled with and surrounded by only love. Everything within me, above me, below me and around me was pure love. So much love that there was no space for any other emotion or feeling. That's when I realised that love is all there is. Nothing more. Nothing less and that's what my responses are based on.
It's not from big book or any other book, person or site. It's from me.
Love and light
Noels

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by PaigeB » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:10 pm

Love has been a pretty awesome Higher Power for me!
Step 6 is "AA's way of stating, the best possible attitude one can take in order to make a beginning on this lifetime job... with most of them we shall have to be content with patient improvement." 12&12 Step Six, p.65

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by Brock » Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:45 pm

That's when I realised that love is all there is. Nothing more. Nothing less and that's what my responses are based on.

Yes Noels, I have also noticed that your responses are all of a kind and loving nature, and this is a quality the world needs more of, I believe it comes from spiritual experiences and development of the very highest order. I follow the daily thoughts of Fr. Richard Rohr which are e-mailed to me, he is a great friend and speaker of AA. This week he is speaking about Paul, the person the founders of our fellowship say they read, particularly Dr. Bob who was a bible scholar, and meditated on the words of Paul to learn the practice of love. Here is the first paragraph of today’s message, please pay attention to the sections I have underlined.
Unitive Consciousness Tuesday, March 8, 2016
After conversion, self-consciousness (in the negative sense) slowly falls away and is replaced by what the mystics call pure consciousness or unitive consciousness--which is love. Self-consciousness implies a dualistic split. There is me over here, judging, analyzing, labeling that or me over there. The mind is largely dualistic before spiritual conversion and even foolishly calls such argumentation "thinking." In true conversion the subject-object split is overcome at least for a moment. You can't maintain this non-dual state twenty-four hours a day; you have to return to dualistic thought regularly to function in this practical world of necessary choices. But now, maybe for the first time, you know there is something more and you will always long to return there. To refuse or resist that invitation might just be the core meaning of biblical "hard heartedness" or sin. Once you've experienced any true union (perhaps at times of peace, acceptance, surrender, prayer, intimate sex, all authentic love), you know that is what you were created for.
You said when you started here that it was your first experience of online AA, therefore you would have no knowledge of the fact that certain people come to forums like this, and pretending to be an AA member ask questions and find this entertaining, perhaps they have a crappy boring life and this is fun for them. Some of us have suggested that the writer you continually defend is one of those, but let us say for a moment that she is not, well then it is quite fair for others here to point out, that for a person of six years in the program she is setting a very bad example.

So let us ask the question you say you always ask “how would my God respond.” I know if my God saw me just saying 'one love' to a person who's behavior goes against everything the program stands for, displaying a great selfishness and posing a danger to the many sponsees she says she has, well 'my God' would not be pleased with me, because I have failed to speak on behalf of those who may suffer. Like the passage from Fr. Rohr says, we live in a reality world, and it is necessary for us at times to judge the motives and actions of others, make a choice is it right or wrong. And I am quite certain everyone on this site wishes they didn't have to judge this persons actions, but someone has to do the dirty work, so you continue to throw flowers and love her way and our way, but please excuse us while we try to protect the innocent, from a member whose actions are completely contrary to the teachings in our literature.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

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ezdzit247
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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by ezdzit247 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:55 pm

I think Hell just froze over.... :lol:

Drum roll please.....

Brock, I totally agree with everything you said in the post above..
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by Layne » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:26 pm

After passing judgement on someone, I don't have to tell the rest of the world about my findings.

If someone runs totally counter to whatever I hold true and of value, even to the point of imperiling others, I still feel that my best shot at saving them from danger is by offering my alternate experience and the results. There is no need for me to talk about where and how the other person is off base and to do so doesn't strengthen and lend credence to my point of view, nor does it sway people to my side.

The big book was written primarily in the style of the authors' ESH, sure there are points where they used examples (such as the jaywalker and the director) to get their message across, but for the most part they stuck to their side of the street. Seems to be a good neighborhood to me.

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by D'oh » Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:41 pm

My first sponsor wrote something on my first 5th step I remember it until this day. He wrote. "Unconditional Love has NO strings, Love people for who they are not what you want them to be."

That statement hit home to me, almost to the same extent as "Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate."

So for me, the only thing that I must work at is My actions and reactions. And Humbly ask my Higher Power for guidance with that.

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by Brock » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:44 am

After passing judgement on someone, I don't have to tell the rest of the world about my findings.
This board and AA in general, has members with differing viewpoints on this business of sticking to my side of the street. I mentioned in my post before this that I have an interest in 'non dualistic thinking,' in which Fr. Rohr says there is no right or wrong, but he also says that in the real world we will have to judge at times.

So we have these 'my side of the street' fellows, who keep on saying it doesn’t matter if someone says recovering or powerless I must not judge them, that's above my pay grade etc. Then you have a few like myself Stepchild Reborn Avannesh and others, who stand up and say those sort of phrases make AA look like a program of lifelong struggle, recovering and powerless is the hope they give the new man, which is no hope at all. The speaker Chris R is also strong on this point, often pointing out that the word powerless is mentioned once in the 164, and power something like 81 times, but no! we must not tell the rest of the world we think this is wrong. Sometimes I feel to ask the my side of the street gang, to check if they have any shops on that side selling balls, but I won't it may get me in trouble.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by D'oh » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:13 am

But I have never heard the words "No hope at all" on this site. But I have heard that "Of our self's, we have nothing." And many different ways of saying this. Such as todays Reflection.
Lali wrote:MARCH 9

SURRENDERING SELF-WILL

Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

— TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 34

No matter how much one wishes to try, exactly how can one turn his own will and his own life over to the care of whatever God he thinks there is? In my search for the answer to this question, I became aware of the wisdom with which it was written: that this is a two-part Step.

I could see many times where I should have died, or at least been injured, during my previous style of living, and it never happened. Someone, or something, was looking after me. I choose to believe my life has always been in God’s care. He alone controls the number of days I will be granted until physical death.

The matter of will (self-will or God’s will) is the more difficult part of the Step for me. It is only when I have experienced enough emotional pain, through failed attempts to fix myself, that I become willing to surrender to God’s will for my life. Surrender is like the calm after the storm. When my will is in line with God’s will for me, there is peace within.

From the book Daily Reflections
Copyright © 1990 by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
What does get confusing, even for someone that has been around for a while, is statements like "Chris R says this" or "The book Such and Such says this". When all of the answers are in the Big Book.

Looking elsewhere, is it to Highlight our journey, or to try to find an Easier Softer way?

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by Brock » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:32 am

What does get confusing, even for someone that has been around for a while, is statements like "Chris R says this" or "The book Such and Such says this". When all of the answers are in the Big Book.
Sorry, when I said this -
The speaker Chris R is also strong on this point, often pointing out that the word powerless is mentioned once in the 164, and power something like 81 times…
I assumed that everyone would know that “the 164” refers to the first 164 pages in the Big Book.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

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Re: I new here and confused with a sponsee situation

Post by D'oh » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:55 am

Well that is how Chris R might read it. But I have read more than once. "Lack of power" is in fact Powerless, and of course "Who cares to admit complete defeat" Nope I don't read much about Self Power there.

And Who is Chris R anyways? Is he willing to sponsor me? Can I call him at Midnight and discuss a Co Worker? Will he show me how he got to where he is today? Can I see him out at meetings, and at the coffee shop after the meeting?
Last edited by D'oh on Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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