If you meet...

Got an issue with someone or something? Want to whine a little? Here's the place to do it, or to get to know folks, or ask those questions that don't fit anywhere else.
Layne
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If you meet...

Post by Layne » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:05 pm

"If you meet the Buddha, kill him."
quote attributed to Linji Yixuan (d. 866)

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Tosh
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Tosh » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:57 am

Me me me me; I know this one. They're not talking about literally killing the Buddha, they're talking about killing the concept of the Buddha.

All thoughts are concepts and concepts are (in certain spiritual circles) known as 'truth concealers'. A prime example is that many of us didn't think we were alcoholics because we didn't conform to a certain concept of what an alcoholic was. I mean I wasn't an alcoholic because I wasn't in the gutter shouting abuse at passing buses. I still washed too (occasionally).

So here, my concept of what an alcoholic was hid from me the fact that I was an alcoholic.

It's why I don't put too much energy into my God concept. Whatever concept I come up with for God, God's not that.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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Spirit Flower
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Spirit Flower » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:33 am

That Tosh is an over achiever.
...a score card reading zero...

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Tosh
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Tosh » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:39 am

Spirit Flower wrote:That Tosh is an over achiever.
That's just your concept of me though. And as we all know, concepts conceal the truth; probably missing the mark by some distance here. :lol:
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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Niagara
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Niagara » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:40 am

Tosh wrote: Whatever concept I come up with for God, God's not that.
I think my brain just fried. I can smell smoke and there's this funny fizzing sound.
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month -
Theodore Roosevelt

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PaigeB
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Re: If you meet...

Post by PaigeB » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:17 am

The Dao that can be told is not the essential Dao.
The name that can be named is not the essential name.

The nameless is the source of existence.
Naming is the origin of all things and distinctions.

If you have no desires, you will see the mystery.
If you have desires, you will see the manifestations.
By Lao Zi
Mind Blown :!:
Step 6 is "AA's way of stating, the best possible attitude one can take in order to make a beginning on this lifetime job... with most of them we shall have to be content with patient improvement." 12&12 Step Six, p.65

Layne
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Layne » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:02 pm

PaigeB wrote:
The Dao that can be told is not the essential Dao.
I thought about leading in with that quote, but went with the one by Linji Yixuan instead. 8)

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Niagara
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Niagara » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:11 pm

It's a bit of a paradox, innit. By our nature, we seek to identify and compartmentalize....and some things we just can't do that with...but it doesn't stop my brain trying...but then I learn (thanks Tosh :lol: ) that even if I did somehow manage this, it wouldn't be the answer anyway...but still I want the answer.

Oh good lord. :lol: I'm even confusing myself now.

I shall go console myself with acceptance either is or it isn't. Is it possible to half accept something?
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month -
Theodore Roosevelt

Layne
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Layne » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:39 pm

The f2f meeting I just got back from was a topic discussion meeting and today's topic was... acceptance!

I feel like a lot of people get tied up in the Gordian knot of acceptance verses acceptable. To me they are two entirely different concepts. The more I accept the idea that events I find to be not acceptable are going to happen, the more I experience peace and serenity.

I was going to a meeting one time when I got a flat tire. At this point, a world of options opened to me. I could:
1.) pound the steering wheel
2.) curse loudly
3.) scream at the heavens "God why does this always happen to me?"
4.) get out of the car, walk around and kick rocks
5.) get the jack and spare tire out and soon be on my way

I am an alcoholic, I did all five behaviors, but at least I didn't sit there in denial that I had a flat tire.

Yesterday I had oral surgery. Today I am sitting here today with a jaw swelled up like a basketball. When I got up this morning my wife asked how I was feeling and if it still hurt. I answered that it didn't hurt so much, as that it didn't not hurt. Life goes on. The question is whether I am going to go on, or am I going to get stuck?

Not accepting is when I get stuck. I don't have to like it. I don't have to not like it. I just know that I don't want to sit beside the road in denial that my tire is flat.

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ezdzit247
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Re: If you meet...

Post by ezdzit247 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:04 pm

Layne wrote:
PaigeB wrote:
The Dao that can be told is not the essential Dao.
I thought about leading in with that quote, but went with the one by Linji Yixuan instead. 8)
I like both but I have to give Yixuan extra points for superior marketing skills. The shock value of his controversial one liner is still reverberating and teaching new generations to reassess "reality" after 1200 years. Awesome.
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Tosh
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Tosh » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:05 pm

Layne wrote: I am an alcoholic, I did all five behaviors, but at least I didn't sit there in denial that I had a flat tire.
This bit made me smile; which means I must identify.

Acceptance is a toughie though. I don't think acceptance can always be forced and I think it happens as a result of things we do. For example I tortured myself about abandoning a wife and two children (now verging on adults) and I couldn't escape the guilt. There was no way I could just 'accept what I'd done and move on'. To find anything close to resembling acceptance I had to go through the 12 Step process, specifically steps 4, 5, 8 and 9. Then acceptance just happened, without any effort.

Right now it's my meditation time. I've been toughing out 60 minutes at a stretch, but I'm hungry, having sugar withdrawals (I've cut that out of my diet just recently) and I'm not sure I want to sit with my own head, in the quiet, for an hour; I think I'm going to torture myself doing so.

But I will. I know if I bring my body to the place of meditation and just sit there, I'll meditate, and hopefully some acceptance will appear.

I think acceptance, like willingness, is a 'gift from God', and it isn't something we 'do', it's something that arises from things we do?

Time to sit on my arse and torture myself! :lol:
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

Layne
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Layne » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:37 pm

Tosh wrote: There was no way I could just 'accept what I'd done
Not trying to take your inventory, merely airing out my thought processes on acceptance. A question I ask myself is "Did it happen or not?"

It is a stripping away of any form of denial that may be hanging around in the twisted corridors of my cranium. Many times the process doesn't produce warm and fuzzies, but when denial is gone and facts are confronted that yes it did indeed happen, to me that is acceptance. From there I can begin to work on solutions and corrections.

And yes, couldn't possibly agree any more if I tried, with the following
Tosh wrote: To find anything close to resembling acceptance I had to go through the 12 Step process, specifically steps 4, 5, 8 and 9. Then acceptance just happened, without any effort.
Hits the nail on the head for this alcoholic.
Tosh wrote:Time to sit on my arse and torture myself! :lol:
Image

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Spirit Flower
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Spirit Flower » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:18 am

Layne wrote:
Image
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
...a score card reading zero...

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Tosh
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Tosh » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:55 am

Layne wrote: It is a stripping away of any form of denial that may be hanging around in the twisted corridors of my cranium. Many times the process doesn't produce warm and fuzzies, but when denial is gone and facts are confronted that yes it did indeed happen, to me that is acceptance. From there I can begin to work on solutions and corrections.
Insightful; thank you. It's given me a new slant on 'acceptance'. Previously I thought of it as finding some serenity in a tough situation, but here you're presenting it as seeing the reality of a situation. Interesting.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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Tosh
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Re: If you meet...

Post by Tosh » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:57 am

Spirit Flower wrote:
Layne wrote:
Image
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Have you ever tried to meditate like that, wrapped up in a blanket?

I just end up nodding off. :lol:
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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