Meditation rings

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Tosh
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Re: Meditation rings

Post by Tosh » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:34 pm

Niagara wrote:I've tried, but so far with little results. I just don't get a lot from it. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
I reckon you're doing it right, but that your expectations of what you may expect to gain from meditation is possibly 'wrong'.

Expectations!!! :lol:
Niagara wrote:Sometimes it's a bit overwhelming surfing for this stuff. Many different schools, and opinions. *brain explosion*
Yes, I agree. I just tipped up at a Buddhist drop in meditation class; that's what got me started. I've read both of Tolle's books, but he's a bit flowery for my tastes. He's basically teaching present moment awareness; mindfulness; it's a Buddhist thing but Jon Kabbat Zinn kicked it off as a mainstream psychiatric practise some years back.

I've also done a two year course in Buddhist Thought, Gelug Buddhism, which is heavy on analytical meditations, which may sound more glamorous than what they actually are. It was interesting though.

But I think the best place to start is with good old fashioned breathing meditation; just meditating on your breath. The breath is portable (it's always with us) and it's fairly cheap (the governments not taxing us on it, yet). There's guided meditations on your breath on youtube, and if you find meditating on the breath boring, just stop breathing for a while and you find it becomes very interesting a short time later. :lol:
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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avaneesh912
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Re: Meditation rings

Post by avaneesh912 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:17 am

Another great illustration is being "not present" is the shower example. We are physically there but not there mentally. We are thinking of what are going to do at work, or who is droping the kids at school or something. We don't experience the water splashing on the body, we don't hear the water flowing into the drain, don't smell the soap/shampoo.

The recent vacation we with few other families, instead of enjoying the vacation, there were couple of women spending 5 more hours searching for houses for their next vacation at the VRBO site. Always planning for the next. Never here.

Another example at a briefing on logistics to assemble at a conference, two women where giving us precise instructions on the logistics. After the women spoke, a gentleman rose and asked the same damn questions, the women went over, few minutes ago. What he was doing was, instead of listening he was in his head raising questions.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Tosh
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Re: Meditation rings

Post by Tosh » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:48 am

Spot on. I've just returned from physically taking out the rubbish, but only God knows where my mind was. I think I also ran up a resentment towards Mrs Tosh who can't tie bin bags up properly.

Sandy B (a well known A.A. speaker) gives a good talk on 'practising the presence of now'; it's easily found on youtube, if anyone's interested. He ties it in with general 12 Step program stuff.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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Niagara
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Re: Meditation rings

Post by Niagara » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:58 am

Tosh wrote:
I reckon you're doing it right, but that your expectations of what you may expect to gain from meditation is possibly 'wrong'.

Expectations!!! :lol:
Hmm. A zen like state where nothing can penetrate my serenity armor. I shall possibly levitate, in a month or two. I shall be too enlightened to be embarrassed to wear my new orange robes just popping down the local shop, whilst simultaneously taming vicious dogs and teenagers along the way with a mere noise in the back of my throat and eye contact. If that works on my kids too, so much the better.

Unrealistic? Moi? :lol:

in all seriousness, you may be right though. I am definitely not the ball of stress that I was a year or so ago, so maybe it IS having some effect. It's so gradual I possibly don't even see it myself. Maybe I'm expecting too much to not get irritated by a houseful of teenagers pushing boundaries, now and then. I'm outnumbered. Wah.

I do think mindfulness as avaneesh has described is really beneficial. The past is gone, no use ruminating on that, and the future is never set in stone. how many times have I had entire conversations in my head with another person, before they've even happened. And then the conversation happens, and it's NOTHING like it went in my head. Worthless. I do get days where I slip into that thinking, and if I don't catch it I end up really frazzled and tense..and then I start to realize, and try to get 'in the moment'. Habits of a lifetime will take a while to break, I guess :) As time goes on, I am becoming more aware of my thought processes, and it's like 'huh, where did THAT come from'. Previously all this stuff was just running rampant and unchecked. No wonder I was exhausted :lol: One of the biggest gifts of this program for me is not having to hook into that mind stuff anymore. It's there, it happens, but I no longer have to believe it as factual.
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month -
Theodore Roosevelt

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clouds
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Re: Meditation rings

Post by clouds » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:38 am

avaneesh912 wrote:Any task done with awareness is meditation. It could be a mandane task, like walking the dog in the wood. Do you hear the leaves ruffling under your feet? The birds chirping? Or Are when you just eating your food, are you just showing the food down the throat? Or when you drive do you take every turn mechanically or with awareness? I was chatting with a friend, he said, suddenly he regressed, with too much in his head and one day, never had a faint idea how he took those winding stretch (of roads) back from his kids karate lessons. Lot of accidents happen due to "too much noice in the head". And the 12 steps gets us grounded.
Being aware, as above, is how I know I'm not following my self centered egoic mind during the day.

Everyday I read step 11 'Upon awakening' and at night 'Before retiring'. During the day I check in by saying the Step Three prayer, because its so easy to get back into the ego/pride prison. When I notice my defects then I'll say the Step 7 prayer anytime thoughout the day, or a reasonable similar expression like, God, please remove these defects of character from me, as You Will. God, please remove this defect so I can better help others according to Yoir will.

Head noise and too much talking will pretty much cloud out the sunlight of the spirit in any of my days.

Everyone can find a spiritual path. The BB tells us its in each of us to be able to do that, and from what I hear people say, each is a little different from the other. I came to AA with no concept of a Higher Power or how to meditate, and yet it all came together as I became willing to take the 12 steps of AA.
Best wishes in your search for peace, serenity and sobriety!
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.

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avaneesh912
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Re: Meditation rings

Post by avaneesh912 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:38 pm

Another pointer to show the mind dominance:

Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have you found the "off" button?

You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for a moment or two.

Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if you were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing entity to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the possessing entity - the thinker.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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clouds
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Re: Meditation rings

Post by clouds » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:30 am

avaneesh912 wrote:Another pointer to show the mind dominance:

Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have you found the "off" button?

You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for a moment or two.

Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if you were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing entity to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the possessing entity - the thinker.

I can, that is how I know when what is called selfish selfcenteredness in AA has gone. I learned it in year 2 of sobriety from a neighbor who had come from India. I only spent an hour with her and the question I asked her was to show me how to meditate. She moved house soon after that and I also moved to another town. I hardly remember what she said, it was more showing me than verbal explanation.

After circa 20 years of meditating without thinking and stopping thoughts during my day I hit some relapses when I couldnt stop thinking when I wanted to. A few weeks after a loved one died I was in great grief off and on for years, so there were these times when thoughts would race in saddness and trying to stop the pain of that. Also more recently when I became terribly worried about my daughter who I am far away from, realizing she had become so seriously addicted to drugs. I was able to come back to a quiet place again after these events so that thoughts can be stopped altogether. During those times where the thoughts could not escape, I sought help here and I complained a lot. I was afraid, as if cut off from life itself. I felt so horrible. I can't say precisely what gave the peace back to me, in a way it seemed as if I was injured, just like a physical injury, and it took time to heal the wound. I remembered what it said in the Bb about not being worried and resuming when its possible again. I never stopped praying with words and praying in word thoughts at those times, it was just the capacity to shut off the thinking had to be mended and then it was mended.

Yes, as you say, enslavement to the egoic mind is clear to me and I also see that what I perceived as an injury to myself enslaved me to thoughts. I appreciate how you express the way to freedom. I will ponder that for a few days, to realize I am not the possessing entity - the thinker. It feels like I am not in myself when I stop all thoughts, that I am absorbed sort of into all surroundings.

I apologize if this has steered any one from the thread topic or if I am taking something meant for the OP and making it for myself. It just very much woke me up to realize that someone described what I do in meditation.

Thank you OP for starting the thread about your Meditation Rings.
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.

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ezdzit247
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Re: Meditation rings

Post by ezdzit247 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:33 pm

Tosh wrote:
.....But I think the best place to start is with good old fashioned breathing meditation; just meditating on your breath. The breath is portable (it's always with us) and it's fairly cheap (the governments not taxing us on it, yet). There's guided meditations on your breath on youtube, and if you find meditating on the breath boring, just stop breathing for a while and you find it becomes very interesting a short time later. :lol:

I agree that the best place for any AA newcomer to start learning meditation is with "good old fashioned breathing meditation". Requires minimal effort and gives almost instant relief from any kind of stress. The nuts and bolts of it are changing conscious states from busy beta brain waves to calm alpha brainwaves by adjusting the ratio of blood gases pumped through the brain through controlled breathing. No prayer rugs, worry beads, gongs, special chants, bells or whistles required.... :wink:
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Spirit Flower
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Re: Meditation rings

Post by Spirit Flower » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:50 am

just like the fellowship is treating the big book
This is not true everywhere.
...a score card reading zero...

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