Jesus and (or vs.) 12 Step's Higher Power contrast ?

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chefchip
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Re: Jesus and (or vs.) 12 Step's Higher Power contrast ?

Post by chefchip » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:33 am

I was gonig to entirely quote the post just before mine. But the software won't allow it any more. Too many quotes, it seems! :lol:

ANYWAY.......

First, I do NOT believe that my soul needs saving. I do not believe in a personal, involved god of any kind. I don't believe I am flawed, damned or anything else that needs saving, at least not in an eternal heaven-like setting. I neither believe in heaven nor hell.

I couch this as "in my experience," because I'm not sure I would recommend this attitude toward life and eternity to everyone. It is not an "easy" way to live, mostly because it provides no answers, only more questions.

I am posting this because, in my experience, I HAVE worked the steps. I've taken the steps. I have found recovery through the steps. And absolutely none of what I have experience required that my soul be saved by any sort of redemptive god, no offense intended. In order for me to believe in an actual god of any kind, I would need proof. Proof like that I have never seen, nor do I expect to see it. I have a higher power, but I have never had the need to anthropomorphize it. Ergo, Db's initial quote I completely understand, and agree with. AA, for me, WAS about saving my ass, not my soul.

For what that's worth! :lol:
Chip
The only constant in life is change.

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Spirit Flower
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Re: Jesus and (or vs.) 12 Step's Higher Power contrast ?

Post by Spirit Flower » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:20 pm

I am contemplative.

My belly button or my axx hole doesn't matter; just go deeply in.

:lol:
...a score card reading zero...

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Duke
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Re: Jesus and (or vs.) 12 Step's Higher Power contrast ?

Post by Duke » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:30 pm

Spirit Flower wrote:I am contemplative.

My belly button or my axx hole doesn't matter; just go deeply in.

:lol:
Thanks Spirit Flower. You really did make me laugh out loud. I love it.
"If you are humble nothing will touch you, neither praise nor disgrace, because you know what you are.", Mother Teresa

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leejosepho
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Re: Jesus and (or vs.) 12 Step's Higher Power contrast ?

Post by leejosepho » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:47 pm

chefchip wrote:I HAVE worked the steps. I've taken the steps. I have found recovery through the steps. And absolutely none of what I have experience required that my soul be saved by any sort of redemptive god, no offense intended.
No offense taken and no one had said one's experience had required one's soul being saved.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

chefchip
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Re: Jesus and (or vs.) 12 Step's Higher Power contrast ?

Post by chefchip » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:52 pm

leejosepho wrote:
chefchip wrote:I HAVE worked the steps. I've taken the steps. I have found recovery through the steps. And absolutely none of what I have experience required that my soul be saved by any sort of redemptive god, no offense intended.
No offense taken and no one had said one's experience had required one's soul being saved.
Last post here. I promise. You are most certainly correct in your observation. Thanks for pointing that out!
The only constant in life is change.

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Brock
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Re: Jesus and (or vs.) 12 Step's Higher Power contrast ?

Post by Brock » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:34 pm

I believe there is such a thing as having your soul saved, and the teaching of the God of my understanding, is that anyone living the 12 steps as outlined in the book, will have their souls saved whether they want it or not.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

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leejosepho
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Re: Jesus and (or vs.) 12 Step's Higher Power contrast ?

Post by leejosepho » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:27 pm

Brock wrote:I believe...anyone living the 12 steps as outlined in the book, will have their souls saved whether they want it or not.
I would speculate that same kind of possibility, but I do not claim any kind of actual knowledge either way. In any case, I just now happened to come across the following from the first draft of our book and I thought it might be helpful here. We can each make our own speculations as to why Bill made the edit, but we at least know for certain he had given this matter some thought of his own in relation to what we A.A.s share with others:

"...suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer ..."
first draft of our book:
"... To be doomed to an alcoholic hell or be 'saved' ..." (The quotation marks there are Bill's.)
our text as it reads today:
"... To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis ..." (page 44)
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

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