Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Most of us who recovered with AA's program did so with the help of a "sponsor". But what is sponsorship? How do I get one? Who can be a sponsor? What makes a good sponsor?
Post Reply
rjr34036
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:28 pm

Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by rjr34036 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:02 am

So I had a sponsee who I was taking through the doctors opinion. She’s an older women, 65 or something (I’m 29), not that age has anything to do with, if anything I thought she’d be entirely willing to do this. Anyway, we talked about the allergy and after searching through her many many years of experience with alcohol she decided that she’s never had a problem stopping. Mind you, the woman ended up homeless in her car and didn’t see a need to stop. One day she had a moment of clarity and decided to give recovery a chance. According to her, she never WANTED to stop, and when she finally did she was able to (present day), and she can put the drink down when she wants (ie does not have a problem controlling consumption).

After she left it felt weird and I wondered if there’s anything else I could have said to make her see the truth. I can’t diagnose her, and she very well may not have this disease. I just keep drawing back on my own experience and I had to see it for MYSELF that I was alcoholic via my experience. No one could tell me anything until I was ready to listen, so perhaps there’s nothing more I could have done.

Anyway, just wanted to see if anyone else ever experienced this when working with someone. How did you feel? I woke up this
Morning thinking about her, hoping I didn’t send her off to kill herself by trying drink one more time. Trynna remind myself I’m not God, what was said was all that was supposed to be said, and if she is alcoholic maybe it’s not her time.
ReAnneR

User avatar
avaneesh912
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 5202
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 12:22 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by avaneesh912 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:40 am

"Working with others chapter" talks about we sharing the struggles we undergo staying stopped. That peculiar twists we go through prior to the first drink. The subtle insanity. We know we have a problem, but we kind of push the agony behind and succumb to the desire. In 2 places on page 92 it talks about going back to "chapter more about alcoholism" to see how they illustrate the problem. An alcoholic doesn't stand a chance to stay sober unless he/she realizes that. He/she is going to myriad reasons why they should drink. The twist, blanks spots are the key.

In one sober living AA meeting, one guys said, he never had those. He wanted to get drunk, meaning he had a choice in it. The book talks about it too.

In some circumstances we have gone out deliberately to get drunk, feeling ourselves justified by nervousness, anger, worry, depression, jealousy or the like. But even in this type of beginning we are obliged to admit that our justification for a spree was insanely insufficient in the light of what always happened.

The allergy is misleading, first of all its the last thing the alcoholic would think off when he begins to drink and then we always seem to be in control first few days weeks. S*** comes off after sometime. Again the chapter more about alcoholism talks about we seem to have control but quickly lose all.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

User avatar
Brock
Trusted Servant
Posts: 4010
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by Brock » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:54 am

Welcome to the forums rjr, you contributed a good few interesting posts, I like this one most. Because I have seen quite often members trying to convince those ‘forced’ to attend, like the DUI folks, that they are alcoholics. It’s as if they think our job is to make people believe they are alcoholics, when it’s more about laying out the facts as shown in the book, and letting them decide. As you rightly say, we must decide for ourselves, only then will we be willing to accept the help offered.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

rjr34036
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:28 pm

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by rjr34036 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:19 am

avaneesh912 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:40 am
"Working with others chapter" talks about we sharing the struggles we undergo staying stopped. That peculiar twists we go through prior to the first drink. The subtle insanity. We know we have a problem, but we kind of push the agony behind and succumb to the desire. In 2 places on page 92 it talks about going back to "chapter more about alcoholism" to see how they illustrate the problem. An alcoholic doesn't stand a chance to stay sober unless he/she realizes that. He/she is going to myriad reasons why they should drink. The twist, blanks spots are the key.

In one sober living AA meeting, one guys said, he never had those. He wanted to get drunk, meaning he had a choice in it. The book talks about it too.

In some circumstances we have gone out deliberately to get drunk, feeling ourselves justified by nervousness, anger, worry, depression, jealousy or the like. But even in this type of beginning we are obliged to admit that our justification for a spree was insanely insufficient in the light of what always happened.

The allergy is misleading, first of all its the last thing the alcoholic would think off when he begins to drink and then we always seem to be in control first few days weeks. S*** comes off after sometime. Again the chapter more about alcoholism talks about we seem to have control but quickly lose all.
I didn’t quite understand the peculiar mental twist for a while when I got here. I get it now of course. I sat with the woman in my home for 2 hours. I shared much of my experience with her (not all just about allergy, but I definitely informed her on what makes an alcoholic an alcoholic - mind and body issues we have). Any picture that leaves out the physical
Allergy is incomplete. I absolutely identified with the allergy when I arrived, it made so much sense and answered so many questions I have- but that’s beside the point. We talked for quite some time about the insanity of that first drink. Our inability to see the truth about what really happens, etc . So what other questions/point do you suggest I bring up specifically? I’m at a stand still here. Not sure if I should try one more time or just leave it alone.
ReAnneR

rjr34036
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:28 pm

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by rjr34036 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:22 am

Brock wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:54 am
Welcome to the forums rjr, you contributed a good few interesting posts, I like this one most. Because I have seen quite often members trying to convince those ‘forced’ to attend, like the DUI folks, that they are alcoholics. It’s as if they think our job is to make people believe they are alcoholics, when it’s more about laying out the facts as shown in the book, and letting them decide. As you rightly say, we must decide for ourselves, only then will we be willing to accept the help offered.
Hi Brock! I’m ReAnne (I realized after I made my username that it would show up as my name and now wish I could change it lol but can’t figure out how!) and thanks! Where I recovered does things a bit different so I’m happy to read nd participate in these discussions, seems like it gets real back to basics here, I love it! But yes I agree, I really don’t think everyone in the rooms needs to do the same thing to stick around. The hard drinker resembles the alcoholic in a lot of ways!
ReAnneR

User avatar
avaneesh912
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 5202
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 12:22 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by avaneesh912 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:39 pm

So what other questions/point do you suggest I bring up specifically? I’m at a stand still here. Not sure if I should try one more time or just leave it alone.
I will also bring up the "Restlessness, irritability, and discontentment" and other emotions we deal with when not drinking. I usually use the story of the car salesman to show how, even though he admitted that he is an alcoholic, he failed to take care of the internal condition. As the story says he had some irritability for losing the business he once owned.

"Suddenly" the thought comes through and he acts on it.

Then the craving kicks in...

This is a copybook story, if one is an alcoholic can relate.

There are some people who can't still see this, if the person you are helping, falls under that category, very little can be done.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

rjr34036
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:28 pm

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by rjr34036 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:07 pm

avaneesh912 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:39 pm
So what other questions/point do you suggest I bring up specifically? I’m at a stand still here. Not sure if I should try one more time or just leave it alone.
I will also bring up the "Restlessness, irritability, and discontentment" and other emotions we deal with when not drinking. I usually use the story of the car salesman to show how, even though he admitted that he is an alcoholic, he failed to take care of the internal condition. As the story says he had some irritability for losing the business he once owned.

"Suddenly" the thought comes through and he acts on it.

Then the craving kicks in...

This is a copybook story, if one is an alcoholic can relate.

There are some people who can't still see this, if the person you are helping, falls under that category, very little can be done.
I’ll tell you what happened when I brought up the state we’re in when separated from alcohol. I told her about being restless irritable and discontent, and she could flat out not relate. In her recollection she was upstanding person when not actively using. Able to hold with her morals and beliefs. Unable to recall any discontentment w life. She says she wasn’t like the people she was around when she was homeless, she said “I just wasn’t like them.” My thought immediately was “but u were, in fact, one of them.” Which made me feel that maybe she just can’t see the truth yet. Blotted out the truth of her intolerable situation? She also feels that she can’t relate to the feelings being shared at meetings and she isn’t like them either lol. So, maybe she just falls under the category of those who very little can be done for at the moment - if she even is one of us.
ReAnneR

User avatar
Peter.H.
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:18 am

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by Peter.H. » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:57 am

rjr34036 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:02 am
So I had a sponsee who I was taking through the doctors opinion. She’s an older women, 65 or something (I’m 29), not that age has anything to do with, if anything I thought she’d be entirely willing to do this. Anyway, we talked about the allergy and after searching through her many many years of experience with alcohol she decided that she’s never had a problem stopping. Mind you, the woman ended up homeless in her car and didn’t see a need to stop. One day she had a moment of clarity and decided to give recovery a chance. According to her, she never WANTED to stop, and when she finally did she was able to (present day), and she can put the drink down when she wants (ie does not have a problem controlling consumption).

After she left it felt weird and I wondered if there’s anything else I could have said to make her see the truth. I can’t diagnose her, and she very well may not have this disease. I just keep drawing back on my own experience and I had to see it for MYSELF that I was alcoholic via my experience. No one could tell me anything until I was ready to listen, so perhaps there’s nothing more I could have done.

Anyway, just wanted to see if anyone else ever experienced this when working with someone. How did you feel? I woke up this
Morning thinking about her, hoping I didn’t send her off to kill herself by trying drink one more time. Trynna remind myself I’m not God, what was said was all that was supposed to be said, and if she is alcoholic maybe it’s not her time.
Binge drinkers can stop drinking for weeks or months before having another drink and bender. Many of these type of drinkers believe they are not alcoholic, because they think alcoholics have to drink all the time.
"...unless this person can experience an entire psyche change there is very little hope of his recovery" - Dr. Silkworth. [Alcoholics Anonymous, 4th Ed, p xxix.]

rjr34036
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:28 pm

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by rjr34036 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Hello everyone! I have an update! So the lady who decided she wasn’t alcoholic came to a meeting for book study, and shared that she relapsed! We were reading more about alcoholism and the mental state the precedes the first drink. She totally was able to identify, and said she didn’t even think before pouring the bag of meth (sorry outside issue but it is true) that she found while at her storage unit into her drink. It never occurred to her that this stuff had her homeless, hopeless, and living in a sober living trying to regain what she’s lost at age 60-something. It was music to my freaking ears and we cried together because I had a similar experience when I first came to the rooms, and it solidified for me that I truly was hopeless, and making up my mind to quit was futile.

Anyway, I’m happy to report that perhaps she had just the experience she needed in order for her to concede to her innermost that she, too, is alcoholic :) sounds crazy but I told her how happy I am for her lol. I just know that Once i admitted complete defeat, I was able to have life rebuilt on an unshakeable foundation, so let’s pray she’s able to do the same! yaaaay!
ReAnneR

User avatar
avaneesh912
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 5202
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 12:22 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by avaneesh912 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:14 am

Yeah thats something incredible that happens when the alcoholic realizes the truth on his/her own understanding. The mental state they talk about that precedes the first drink is so important to latch on because its so subtle many dont realize that. We talk about losing control after we take the first drink all the time but very little talk about the struggle we had to go through to stay stopped.

In the chapter working with others on page 92, on 2 occasions it talks about the will being week around the first drink.

Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop. Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree.

how him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

User avatar
PaigeB
Trusted Servant
Posts: 8421
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:28 pm
Location: Iowa USA

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by PaigeB » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:52 pm

rjr34036 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:58 pm
...sounds crazy but I told her how happy I am for her lol. I just know that Once i admitted complete defeat, I was able to have life rebuilt on an unshakeable foundation, so let’s pray she’s able to do the same! yaaaay!
I sometimes pray for the Gift of desperation for them... that it end the suffering.
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

D'oh
Forums Long Timer
Posts: 927
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:51 am

Re: Helped sponsee decide that she’s NOT alcoholic

Post by D'oh » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:14 pm

Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right- about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!

Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums—we could increase the list ad infinitum.

We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it



more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.31
Describes the Journey for some. (me included)

Still worth the price of admission.

Post Reply