Inductive Reasoning

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1Peter5:10
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Inductive Reasoning

Post by 1Peter5:10 »

In early sobriety I felt a need to "figure things out" before I did them.

I didn't even participate in AA because I felt more secure, happier in some way, with the idea of "figuring this out" on my own.

Even when I first "joined" AA, I did not commit to doing things the AA way because I wanted to "figure out" what they were doing, how and why it works.

It was a necessary (unavoidable) but harmful process.

The healing began when I finally the only logic I needed was "It works for them," and "I would be better off with their mistakes than with my mistakes."

How could I EVER know how to get sober?
Today I know hundreds of people who have gotten sober.
What ability did I have to "figure this out?"
Where in the hell was I getting my data?

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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by Indianapolis »

I am prone to overthinking. Probably a part of my natural personality, and definitely exacerbated by my profession (business attorney).

When I came to AA, I was lucky enough to select a sponsor with a definite "keep it simple" mentality. Bob is a great guy, Vietnam vet, a solid fellow. But he has no love for overinvesting in futile reasoning.

I recall when I was in my first 60 days or so, and was complaining about the time commitment required. I said "I had a 7am meeting, a noon meeting, I'm meeting with you for an hour, and then have a 3-hour rehab meeting tonight. Ugh." Bob smiled and said "sounds like 6 hours you're not f---ing drinking. What's your schedule tomorrow?" Lol.

When I begin overanalyzing a reading or a theory of recovery or the like, he helpfully reminds me to simplify. Follow the path that he and others have walked and stop the logical overload. I can't begin to tell you how many times he's had to remind me to keep it simple -- 100's? 1000s? But he's always right.

The program works. I don't have to worry about why. I just have to be sober today and work my steps.

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Layne
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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by Layne »

I can relate to so much of what both of you have already said. I definitely resemble those shares LOL. I didn't need to figure out how to get sober or to not drink, because it had already been figured out by the people who went before me. I just needed to figure out if I could follow suggestions.

1Peter5:10
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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by 1Peter5:10 »

AA itself did not come about by Bill and the old-timers sitting down and deducing how to get sober.

If I understand correctly, drawing on heavy inspiration from the Oxford group, the old-timers simply *described* what happened.

I am sometimes terrible with analogies, it's more like, after American football had been around for a while,
and people had been throwing the ball with two hands, and underhand and every other way, someone watched the method that worked when others did it, called it "the spiral" and explained,
- from the feet,
- to the hips,
- to the shoulders
- to the height of the elbow
- to the finger grip and flick-of-the-wrist.

That person never deduced what should work,
and every quarterback who ever lived learned to throw a spiral from habit long before he ever analyzed it

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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by Indianapolis »

1Peter5:10 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:52 am
AA itself did not come about by Bill and the old-timers sitting down and deducing how to get sober.

If I understand correctly, drawing on heavy inspiration from the Oxford group, the old-timers simply *described* what happened.
If you're ever interested, the book "Writing the Big Book" is a fascinating study in that history.

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PaigeB
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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by PaigeB »

Overheard at a few meetings:
"We have to act our way into a new way of thinking!"

This is a practical program of action.

Look for this in the Big Book pgs 42, 85 & 94. But "practical" alone on other pages and "program of action" on others.
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

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PaigeB
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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by PaigeB »

What is the relation of [contemplation] to action? Simply this. He who attempts to act and do things for others or for the world without deepening his own self-understanding, freedom, integrity and capacity to love will not have anything to give others. He will communicate to them nothing but the contagion of his own obsessions, his aggressiveness, his ego-centered ambitions, his delusions about ends and means, his doctrinaire prejudices and ideas. —Thomas Merton
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

1Peter5:10
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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by 1Peter5:10 »

PaigeB wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:35 pm
Overheard at a few meetings:
"We have to act our way into a new way of thinking!"

This is a practical program of action.

Look for this in the Big Book pgs 42, 85 & 94. But "practical" alone on other pages and "program of action" on others.
Dittos this.

I was a real deep low bottom drunk.
I went into rehab with 9 other people. Six months later 5 were dead 4 were relapse but alive.

I was in AA still doing what they told me, even when it didn't make sense.
In my AA there were other low bottoms who had entered at about the same time as I had.

"Wax on, wax off" was how we greeted each other.

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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by tomsteve »

1Peter5:10 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:57 am

What ability did I have to "figure this out?"
Where in the hell was I getting my data?
peter, i thank you for the early morning laugh. i laugh because this sends me back to early recovery. i wasnt much to asking questions because i thought i was so smart i could figure it out. reading the big book, a lot didnt make sense. heres where the problem and solution came in: i was complicating it. the program in the big book is so dam simple i didnt understand it. i thought for sure something that was going to help me recover from alcoholism had to involve something like quantum mechanics!
i just had to get some humility and crush pride and my ego. i had to get dumb. :)
as far as where i got my data from...welp...i got it from MY past.
i had to erase my memory. =biggrin
i wasnt as smart as i thought i was, which i learned a lesson there from an old timer:
theres a difference between being smart and being intelligent. i may have been intelligent but i sure wasnt very smart!LOLOLOLOL

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Layne
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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by Layne »

"Wax on, wax off"
That made my morning. It made me chuckle in recognition. It sent me down memory lane on a positive note for a reinforcing visit. And lastly because it is short, sweet, and spot on for the present. Thanks.

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PaigeB
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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by PaigeB »

1Peter5:10 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:56 am
"Wax on, wax off" was how we greeted each other.
This really IS on for this pandemic!

But I have to ask - did you say "Wax on, wax off"? Do the hand motions? Or Both?
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

1Peter5:10
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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by 1Peter5:10 »

Lol
We seldom did the hand motions,
but I think we used them one or twice as a silent "secret sign."

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PaigeB
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Re: Inductive Reasoning

Post by PaigeB »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

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