Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

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ChancesAh
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Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by ChancesAh » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:35 pm

I appreciate and expected that most people would see alcoholism as in some form or way incurable or at least 'always present within us' even if in remission. I understand that such beliefs are self preserving and I've never heard of a true alcoholic being able to moderate.

However,

In order to plan my future action in sobriety and build confidence I'd like to know why AA has such a junior membership.
In my meeting the longest sobriety is about 10yrs than a 5yrs than about 30- 40 members all under 3 years.
In my region it's the same story with members being over 10yrs sober being outnumbered 50 to 1. (Anyone who makes 20 years is outnumbered so highly that their existence is nearly folk law. Indeed I know what meetings they attend, their names and what they share but I've never seen or heard some of them in person.)

So, based on the numbers or 'normal for AA' I would expect that of the 30 odd less than 3yr sobriety members in my group only 1 or 2 will be present in 10 years. Why????

This is not a region or area thing. In researching it I've found this is the normal. AA distribute thousands of 1,3 and 6 months coins but only send out dozens of 10 year coins.

I do not believe that AA has a fail rate of 95% and I strongly doubt 95% of the members from 10 ago are all drinking - so where are they???

* This is NOT a criticism of AA or it's programs but a merely a question asked to seek knowledge and clarity. As such I'd like to know from older members where everyone goes and
not merely their personally beliefs in the program or quotes from the BB

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Spirit Flower
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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by Spirit Flower » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:56 pm

Well, I have 30 years. I just came from a meeting where 3 of the people have more than me. And of about 40 people in the meeting, more than 25% had double digits.

ps: we also had a wet one.
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Chelle
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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by Chelle » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:23 pm

*
Last edited by Chelle on Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lali
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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by Lali » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:47 pm

One of my favorite meetings (but not my home group) generally has 15 attendees at most meetings. There are about 7 members with long term sobriety. Their sobriety adds up to about 180 years. I have a mere 5+ and there are a few with under a year. It is my opinion that perhaps good meetings such as this tend to attract other long time sober members.

As for my home group, there is a "core group" who are regulars of about 15 members. The other 15 or so attendees mostly come from halfway houses that require attendance of x number of meetings per week depending on the house managers. Unfortunately, these guys and gals tend to go into the halfway houses not looking for recovery but looking for a place to crash and get fed. And the house managers tend to be in it for the money. It is sad really.

I don't know if this information is helpful to the OP but I hope so.
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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by Stepchild » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:01 pm

ChancesAh wrote:I appreciate and expected that most people would see alcoholism as in some form or way incurable or at least 'always present within us' even if in remission.
Now you can carry the message to new members that we are in remission. I asked in the other thread about the successful consummation of working these steps the founders talk about and not one recovering alcoholic would touch it. Let's try it from another angle....Same paragraph...Page 25........

When, therefore, we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved...

Do you feel as if the problem has been solved for you?....I do. If so share that. Maybe the oldtimers in you area got tired of the new message. No I'm not recovered...I'll always be recoverring...Don't drink no matter what and go to meetings....It doesn't work....And you hear it right hear on this board. What do I think is the main reason for todays poor success rate....And I've seen enough come and go to know it is poor. Nobody reads the book anymore....Try this at you next meeting....Ask how many people have even bothered to read it. It's the clear-cut directions for how we recover.....And nobody ever mentions it in meetings.

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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by avaneesh912 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:22 am

Back then it used to be a somewhat closed society. People that came in where exposed to the steps. Those who tried it, stayed sober, or were in recovery. But today, I would say its contaminated.

There is an article in CNN I read just yesterday where the authors sister is in AA for 2 years, married to a guy who is also in recovery. Its a great story but the author goes on to add her opinion. If you don't agree with the Big Book you don't have to read it. I think thats where the whole issue starts. There are many folks today doing that. They have absolutely no understanding of what powerlessness and un-manageability means. And the working of the 12 steps. Don't try to understand it? How does one apply the principles?


Does AA work for everyone?

Two others in my family have struggled with alcoholism over the years and have conflicting views of AA: One was a big proponent and the other does not believe in it at all.

As for Rachel, she doesn't think AA is perfect, but tells me there's a saying in meetings: "Take what you want and leave the rest."

In other words: If there are people you don't relate to or parts of the program you don't agree with, ignore them. If you're not religious, you don't have to buy into what some see as religious overtones. If you don't agree with the Big Book, you don't have to read it. Don't try to understand it or overanalyze the 12 Steps. Don't try to search for faults or logic gaps. If AA helps you stay sober, that's the ONLY thing that matters.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by avaneesh912 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:38 am

I do not believe that AA has a fail rate of 95% and I strongly doubt 95% of the members from 10 ago are all drinking - so where are they???
Also want to add. You need to search for those people/groups in your area that are kicking butt. Mike D from LA is in Atlanta this weekend. Speaking and running workshops. Though he is not AA but from CA, you could see the 12 steps work, you could see the serene, glowing look in his face, Monk like. One of my peers that goes with me to the institutions said this, we need to stretch our wings. I am tired of hearing old Jane say the same story every time she shares. Even he can say her story in a better way LOL. Stretch your wings my friend, you will find the fellowship you crave. Don't sit in one place.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by Stepchild » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:50 am

So it comes down to....Which are you going to believe?

The experience the founders shared in the book?

If we have carefully followed directions, we have begun to sense the flow of His Spirit into us. To some extent we have become God-conscious. We have begun to develop this vital sixth sense.
pg 85

Or what you hear in meetings?

Take what you want....And leave the rest.

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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by leejosepho » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:04 am

ChancesAh wrote:...merely a question...I'd like to know from older members where everyone goes...
I suspect nobody really knows any kind of comprehensive answer here. But if you were to look closely at various situations, I would suspect the real A.A. group with identifiable members calling *themselves* an A.A. group (Tradition Three) still has long-timers where the typical meeting merely being called a group does not. Aside from that, I happen to know long-timers who simply do not attend meetings of today's AA.
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"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
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whipping post
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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by whipping post » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:43 am

I heard the 5% success rate when I first started. I believe it's accurate. My mindset was by god if 5% can do it I can be one of those and i'm going to find the ones to show me how. My homegroup is a pretty even spread from fresh to 28 years.

I never hear the words recovered, cured, recovering or remission here. I hear people with good sobriety saying the promises are true, they've got peace, they've learned how to live, they've lost the obsession. I see people that are genuinely happy and at peace the majority of the time. They aren't BSing.

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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by Lali » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:16 am

avaneesh912 wrote:As for Rachel, she doesn't think AA is perfect, but tells me there's a saying in meetings: "Take what you want and leave the rest."
I used to use this phrase a lot until someone pointed out to me that this gives the newcomer "permission" if you will, to pick and choose what they want to believe in the Big Book. They may even use this quote to give a half-a@@@ed approach to the steps.

I remember how, in my very early days in the program, I used the phrase "Easy Does It" as the green light to limit my meetings. I actually argued with a friend who was giving me rides that I didn't want to overdo it with meetings as I might get burned out and that the program tells us to "take it easy"!!! She wasn't one of us and she didn't buy it.
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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by avaneesh912 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:29 am

I used the phrase "Easy Does It" as the green light to limit my meetings.
Yes, people use it out of context all the time. It was meant for the wifie-poo who wouldn't tolerate the husbands smoking.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Tosh
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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by Tosh » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:44 am

leejosepho wrote:Aside from that, I happen to know long-timers who simply do not attend meetings of today's AA.
Well shame on them; today's A.A. is their fault, not the newcomers. Where's the leadership at all levels that Concept IX talks about? They just selfishly get sober, don't show any leadership, get resentful and quietly leave eh?

Maybe we can do without that kind of long-timer.

Anyway, A.A. seems to be healthy where I live; go to any of the meetings and you'll hear lots of recovery, but that seems to come from the younger A.A.'s rather than the long-timers.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by avaneesh912 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:56 am

but that seems to come from the younger A.A.'s rather than the long-timers.
Yes, there is a movement that is in the works. People are realizing simply going to meetings is not working for them. The internet is also playing a big part in this. Communication the key Bill W writes in one of the articles that appeared in Grapevine "Language of the heart". Where the key concept was conveyed to him from the Doctor, his friend and then how recovery spread all through communication.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Tosh
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Re: Cured or in remission - Does AA have a 'used by date'

Post by Tosh » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:02 am

avaneesh912 wrote:
but that seems to come from the younger A.A.'s rather than the long-timers.
Yes, there is a movement that is in the works. People are realizing simply going to meetings is not working for them. The internet is also playing a big part in this.
I agree. At our local city's annual convention; the guy who organised it did a good job and put together a wide-range of shares (different types of AA's).

All the shares from the members who had less than (I'm guessing) 10 years were pretty much AA program orientated. The Old Timers, most of them, weren't.

I shared there too. I was funny, handsome, articulate, and on-beam. :lol:
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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