Not giving credit to our Creator does not change the source of the healing. And interestingly, I even know a Rabbi who says she does not care whether people believe God exists as long as they are living within His will!
So we don't have to 'understand' was my point, from here:
leejosepho wrote:It has only to do with understanding alcoholism as a two-fold condition with only the second part being treatable only by our Creator.
I inferred, rightly or wrongly from your post, that as part of recovery we had to understand that it's treatable only by "our Creator", and I was just pointing out we don't even have to believe in a 'Creator', never mind understand that recovery comes from one.
Which you seem to agree with.
I had not meant to get into comparing track records, just trying to help answer as to why today's AA does not measure up...and that is because essentially telling the real alcoholic he or she actually can stop drinking without turning to our Creator -- "Just don't take the first drink, one-day-at-a-time, while coming to meetings for human 'support'" -- almost never works.
I'm not sure saying 'Turn to our Creator' works either. If it did, I'd say it, but phrases like that carry a lot of baggage and they can be early deal-breakers, like we're some evangelical religious organisation.
I also doubt there was some 'Golden Age of A.A.' where everyone sang from the same hymn sheet. I've listened to a lot of old speaker tapes (you can even find them by decade) from the 1950s and some of them would be classed as abysmal by members of this forum; even from some of the 'First 100'.
"Don't drink a day at a time" isn't a modern A.A. phenomenon; that came from early A.A.s.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)