Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

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leejosepho
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by leejosepho »

D'oh wrote:...every day is a day I ask for help. Even though I don't think about drinking today, I do have to deal with life everyday.
You and I actually agree, we just have differing processes for getting there and I place a lot of focus on always learning or even re-learning by going back to the beginning and basic truths to move forward rather than by looking back from times of trouble. When the crack in the ceiling reappears, for example, it is time to move the repair crew to the foundation.

Nothing in your words or actions during this discussion has indicated to me that you might believe I have committed any wrong against you, but please do let me know either publicly or privately if that is not true.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

D'oh
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by D'oh »

leejosepho wrote:
D'oh wrote:..
Nothing in your words or actions during this discussion has indicated to me that you might believe I have committed any wrong against you, but please do let me know either publicly or privately if that is not true.
No Nothing could be any further from the from the truth and I hope that in no way that I have wronged you. The only person that may have been harmed in this discussion might have been "Change", but at the same time maybe there is a message in this "Discussion" that may help.

What started me off the thread's path was quotes like this;
tyg wrote:Wow, that is scary...That pamphlet is not in line with what Alcoholics Anonymous says.

I used to do what that pamphlet said and I just kept getting drunk again. I know many who've gone insane or died out there. Not everyone gets to make it back.
And this;
Stepchild wrote:Where is that pamphlet from? I've never seen it....It's frightening.

Although the Big Book doesn't call anything a "24 Hour Plan" it is set up as doing things to stay sober One Day at a Time. I can go out and drink tomorrow if I care to. The Big Book even suggests that to someone that might have a doubt about their True Condition. "Try some Controlled Drinking, it might be worth a bad case of the jitters if we get a true knowledge of our condition"

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avaneesh912
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by avaneesh912 »

Although the Big Book doesn't call anything a "24 Hour Plan" it is set up as doing things to stay sober One Day at a Time. I can go out and drink tomorrow if I care to. The Big Book even suggests that to someone that might have a doubt about their True Condition. "Try some Controlled Drinking, it might be worth a bad case of the jitters if we get a true knowledge of our condition"
Really dude? This is all for new-comers buddy. Once you get convinced, there is no looking back. You just keep growing spiritually and move forward. In your previous post you say "you ask god for help". For what? keep you sober? if you are, you haven't grasped the concept. Thats all i can say.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by Stepchild »

D'oh wrote: Although the Big Book doesn't call anything a "24 Hour Plan" it is set up as doing things to stay sober One Day at a Time.
No D'oh...It's not. It's set up to explain our problem and offer clear-cut directions to a spiritual solution that solves it. Permanently...It has been removed and longer exists for us. It does offer a daily design for living...That when followed...Keeps us in the spiritual condition that the problem remains...Removed. We have ceased fighting it. We pray ONLY for knowledge of His/Her/Whatever you understand God to be's...Will for that day. What would He have us do? I don't know...But if I trust God and am thankful for having been given this gift....Removing the obsession to drink....Restoring me to sanity of not picking up that first drink...Knowing exactly where it would take me...Probably death in my case. Why would I need to ask Him to remove it again?

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by Stepchild »

D'oh wrote: The Big Book even suggests that to someone that might have a doubt about their True Condition. "Try some Controlled Drinking, it might be worth a bad case of the jitters if we get a true knowledge of our condition"
Not a bad test for someone doubting whether they are alcoholic or not.
Has nothing to do with the process that solves our problem.

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by D'oh »

avaneesh912 wrote:
Really dude? This is all for new-comers buddy. Once you get convinced, there is no looking back. You just keep growing spiritually and move forward. In your previous post you say "you ask god for help". For what? keep you sober? if you are, you haven't grasped the concept. Thats all i can say.
Yes "Really Dude"

Because that is how it is stated to me. "It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of Alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when WE MUST carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. How can I best serve thee, Thy will (not mine) be done. These are thoughts which MUST go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will."

Higher Power first, me second, carrying the message third, is something that I always have to keep in perspective.

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avaneesh912
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by avaneesh912 »

What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition
Yes, when I do that, the funky idea that I may or may not be alcoholic shouldn't arise (like it happens in a new-comer). And I will not worry about experimenting if I can handle alcohol safely or not.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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leejosepho
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by leejosepho »

D'oh wrote:Although the Big Book doesn't call anything a "24 Hour Plan" it is set up as doing things to stay sober One Day at a Time.
That is not true or it would clearly say so, but it is perfectly fine for you or anyone to perceive things that way...and I honestly do not fault you for certain conclusions you have drawn following your overall experience.
D'oh wrote:I can go out and drink tomorrow if I care to.
There is certainly no law of God, man or A.A. saying otherwise, yet we do have this experience to share:

"Save for a few brief moments of temptation the thought of drink has never returned; and at such times a great revulsion has risen up in him. Seemingly he could not drink even if he would (as in 'not even if he foolishly thought he might want or need to do so'). God had restored his sanity." (page 57)

That certainly does not have to be the experience or mantra of everyone, of course, but neither does yours nor my own.
The Big Book even suggests that to someone that might have a doubt about their True Condition. "Try some Controlled Drinking, it might be worth a bad case of the jitters if we get a true knowledge of our condition."
That is part of 12th-Step work and would only be applicable here if you or I were still (or again) pondering whether or not we might even actually be alcoholics.

Again, however, and lest anyone might misunderstand: Your personal perceptions and words here are you own just as mine are my own and I do not in any way fault you for any of them.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

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Brock
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by Brock »

Like Lee I am trying not to find fault, in a post on the previous page, D'oh speaks of the fact that he stopped attending meetings and let the spiritual side slip after many years, which led to a relapse. Perhaps for this reason I can see why he is a little more cautious in what he asks for each day, and if he believes asking to be kept sober is necessary for his well being I know we must say fine for him, whatever works and so on.

Where I have a problem as others have said, this is not the impression I get from reading the book. We have problems in AA today from those who didn't do the steps because they didn't need to, and then preach this sort of one day at a time approach, but D'oh is an experienced member who has done them, so I am surprised.

Before the book Bill used to take alcoholics to listen to Emmett Fox, he was a very popular preacher who never failed to speak of the benefits of living one day at a time, some in AA corrupted Bill's intent and started insinuating that he meant stay sober rather than live one day at a time.
D'oh said-
Because that is how it is stated to me. "It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe.

This is fine, we must not let up on the spiritual side, and unfortunately you did and it cost you dearly. But for the members I know, and the program I like newcomers to hear, it is not at all difficult to tell when the spiritual side is slipping, we become irritable and perhaps discontent, we pause and ask for guidance etc, we don't pause and pray to resist a drink unless we are very new, and newcomers must know that the temptation to drink is removed completely, if I didn't believe that I wouldn't have stayed. And anyone saying in a meeting that they have done the steps and pray every day to be kept sober, is sending the message that sobriety is a shaky sort of thing, instead of the rock solid broad highway the vast majority of us walk on.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by avaneesh912 »

D'oh speaks of the fact that he stopped attending meetings and let the spiritual side slip after many years, which led to a relapse.
I could interpret this as, we have to go to meetings to stay spiritually fit. Hope Brock is not trying to imply that. The fellowship (meetings) though a vital part of recovery, we stay spiritually fit by working the 12 steps. I agree, every body does that to the best of their ability. I felt that my spiritual condition was slipping few weeks ago, so I prayed about it and found that I needed another sponsor so I can have a different prespective and so been following his suggestions (all from the big book). For lust he has prayer, for resentments he pointed out to the 4th step portion where others are spiritually skip, so we can have compassion/empathy. I do go to about 3 to 4 meetings but, I don't grow spiritually just by going to meetings.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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leejosepho
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by leejosepho »

avaneesh912 wrote:I don't grow spiritually just by going to meetings.
Nope, sure not. If meetings could produce spiritual growth, coffee shops could turn us into doughnuts!
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

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Brock
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by Brock »

avaneesh912 wrote: I could interpret this as, we have to go to meetings to stay spiritually fit. Hope Brock is not trying to imply that.
No not at all, in fact meetings, (or most of them), I find add little or nothing to my spiritual fitness. For me it's the overall way I live, and I was making the point that it really is not too difficult to tell when I am slipping. Cussing other drivers = slipping, fidgety and annoyed in traffic jam = slipping, lack of patience waiting for wife to get dressed = slipping, and so forth. Solution each time these things happen from chapter six-  “As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action.” And at the end of the day, once we can smile and think we did a good job and enjoyed the day, we were on the broad highway walking hand in hand with the spirit of the universe.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by Tracy h »

(Thanks for hashing it out in order to spell it out, I finally clued into gist by last post)

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leejosepho
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by leejosepho »

Brock wrote:...Cussing other drivers = slipping, fidgety and annoyed in traffic jam = slipping, lack of patience waiting for wife to get dressed = slipping, and so forth.
Oh no, now I gotta do something about that stuff too?! ;)

But like from one of the stories in the back of at least my Third Edition, "...grateful for the necessity that makes us toe the line."
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by Spirit Flower »

this must be done with the encouragement of newcomers in mind
Sometimes, people just say their truth; even if it is not pretty.
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