Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

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tyg
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by tyg »

Wow, that is scary...That pamphlet is not in line with what Alcoholics Anonymous says.

I used to do what that pamphlet said and I just kept getting drunk again. I know many who've gone insane or died out there. Not everyone gets to make it back.
~The secret to the AA program is the first three words on page 112~

D'oh
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by D'oh »

tyg wrote:Wow, that is scary...That pamphlet is not in line with what Alcoholics Anonymous says.

I used to do what that pamphlet said and I just kept getting drunk again. I know many who've gone insane or died out there. Not everyone gets to make it back.
That's exactly on line with the program. The storey on Page 508-509 in the fourth edition sums up so much of AA life it always brings me back to "Why I am here"

Everything can be going wonderful only to find yourself sitting in front of a drink. It is just 1 day. "Besides I can drink tomorrow if I wanted to"

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

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tyg wrote:Wow, that is scary...That pamphlet is not in line with what Alcoholics Anonymous says.
No...It's not. When you read something like this...From the pamphlet...

we ask ourselves whether the particular drink we have in mind would be worth all the consequences we have experienced from drinking in the past. We bear in mind that we are perfectly free to get drunk, if we want to, that the choice between drinking and not drinking is entirely up to us.

And the Big Book tells us this (In italics to stress the importance.)...

The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.

You get an idea why people are having a hard time grasping this process. Or saying things in meetings like...Think through the drink...Or never forget your last drunk. When it's clearly stated....There will be times...That flat out won't work.

Or better yet...Today I choose not to drink.

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avaneesh912
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by avaneesh912 »

It is just 1 day.
Are you saying, you are fighting the urge to drink everyday? Minute by minute?
Everything can be going wonderful only to find yourself sitting in front of a drink.
Yes, if you don't keep working the 12 steps.

Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power.

Joe and Charlie team nicely talk about this paragraph. They pause and point out that the book doesn't talk about the "still drinking", "recovered", "recovering alcoholic" they use the general term "The alcoholic at certain times".

Perhaps that certain times is where we are spiritually sick. Thats why its important for we alcoholic to watch for selfishness and self-centeredness all the time.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

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change wrote: I did find it scary hearing stories where people were still suffering years later :( I have been clinging to the hope I will feel better in a month or so. I am feeling physically stronger now on day 3.
I sincerely worked the steps and have experienced the promises as a direct result. Each of us who takes the steps is headed in the same direction, but it is in truly giving yourself to the program that it works. Putting the plug in the jug helped me to heal physically, working the steps helped me to heal emotionally, spiritually, and mentally. I was so full of anxiety, remorse and guilt that I never thought I would experience peace and serenity again, I found my smile here after only a few months, but I worked to get that smile back and I did and so can you!
Promises:
" If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.
1. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness."
2. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.
3. We will comprehend the word serenity
4. We will know peace.
5. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.
6. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
7. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
8. Self-seeking will slip away.
9. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.
10. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.
11. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
12. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us - sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them."
I look forward to walking along side you on your journey Change.
Hanna
We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace

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tyg
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by tyg »

If it does a good job representing Alcoholics Anonymous, I am not able to see it:

[quote="avaneesh912"]Its like some of the pamphlets, while big book tells us, we will be placed in a position of neutrality, this piece of information (its in the information on AA pamphlet) tells totally a different story.

The 24-hour plan

For example, we take no pledges, we don’t say that we will “never” drink again. Step 10 promises pg 84 assures me I can be confident about permanent sobriety: For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition. Instead, we try to follow what we in A.A. call the “24-hour plan.”

We concentrate on keeping sober just the current twenty-four hours. We simply try to get through one day at a time without a drink. Try to get through? Nonsense, Step 10 promises. Trying doesn't apply when we are doing it. It comes automatically. The problem doesn't exist for us. AA gives clear cut directions how to live happily without drinking in pages 58-103 Also, (Al-Anon, "Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill) "We A.A.s do not stay away from drinking, we grow away from drinking [one day at a time]."

If we feel the urge for a drink, we neither yield nor resist. We merely put off taking that particular drink until tomorrow. We try to keep our thinking honest and realistic where alcohol is concerned. AA says: Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink pg 24 (one of several references) If we are tempted to drink — AA says: We need a spiritual check-up maybe due to resting on our laurels. We check ourselves and then we better go find an alcoholic to help, be talking with God and admit our faults to another pg. 100, 84, 89 to name a few and the temptation usually fades after the first few months in A.A. AA says: We are seldom interested in liquor. If tempted we recoil from it as if from a hot flame.— we ask ourselves whether the particular drink we have in mind would be worth all the consequences we have experienced from drinking in the past. AA says: Again, What I just said above plus, pg 40: He was positive that this humiliating experience, plus the knowledge he had acquired, would keep him sober the rest of his life. wasn't enough, they relapsed
pg 26: Above all, he believed he had acquired such a profound knowledge of the inner workings of his mine and its hidden springs that relapse was unthinkable. Wasn't enough, they relapsed
We bear in mind that we are perfectly free to get drunk, if we want to, that the choice between drinking and not drinking is entirely up to us. It is entirely up to us to live this program or not. But without an entire phychic change, there is little hope of recovery. Dr. Opinion. As a result of the steps = entire Psychic change Most important of all, we try to face up to the fact that, no matter how long we may have been dry, we will always be alcoholics — and alcoholics, as far as we know, can never again drink socially or normally. True, we recover but that doesn't mean we can drink alcohol again safely.
~The secret to the AA program is the first three words on page 112~

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

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The so-called "24-Hour Plan" cannot be found anywhere within our Basic Text (Preface through page 164) because, and as just about any real alcoholic who has ever tried it would almost certainly already know: Daily abstinence from ethyl alcohol cannot produce permanent recovery from chronic alcoholism where "We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It [no longer exists] for us." (page 85)

In my own case and before I had ever even heard of A.A., I repeatedly tried to "Just don't take the first drink one-day-at-a-time" (and even with "sweet Jesus!" tacked on at the end) while hoping to never again end up drinking again -- rinse-and-repeat -- and then soon ended up in A.A. after having quickly learned that never worked for me for more than about three days.

Many people today put a lot of effort into "Just don't take the first drink one-day-at-a-time" while attending meetings for a bit of human-powered "support"...and then they end up drunk again...and then they also rinse-and-repeat until either dead or finally coming to terms with our common A.A. experience:

"Who cares to admit complete defeat? Practically no one, of course. Every natural instinct cries out against the idea of personal powerlessness...to admit that, glass in hand, we have warped our minds into such an obsession for destructive drinking that only an act of Providence can remove it from us." (12&12, Step One)

Pats on the back for not drinking today sound much more appealing, eh?! But in fact:

"Unless each A.A. member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps to recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant." ("A.A. Comes Of Age" and 12&12, Tradition Nine)

For the real alcoholic, no so-called "24-Hour Plan" will ever effectively replace that. At its very best "Just for today" can sometimes buy some of us a few days (or even many) while pondering a decision about the actual program, and we can see that idea first presented in the story of "A.A. Number Three" (Bill D.). Bill and Bob did not ever suggest he could stay sober forever by not taking the first drink one-day-at-a-time...but they did *ask* him whether *he* thought he might be able to do that for a day or two while deciding about Step Three.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

D'oh
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

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avaneesh912 wrote:
It is just 1 day.
Are you saying, you are fighting the urge to drink everyday? Minute by minute?
Everything can be going wonderful only to find yourself sitting in front of a drink.
Yes, if you don't keep working the 12 steps.

Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power.

Joe and Charlie team nicely talk about this paragraph. They pause and point out that the book doesn't talk about the "still drinking", "recovered", "recovering alcoholic" they use the general term "The alcoholic at certain times".

Perhaps that certain times is where we are spiritually sick. Thats why its important for we alcoholic to watch for selfishness and self-centeredness all the time.
Read the storey and you will see what I am saying.

We are not cured of Alcoholism. What we have is a daily reprieve contingent on our spiritual maintance.

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avaneesh912
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by avaneesh912 »

Read the storey and you will see what I am saying.
I read it. This is the experience of a new-comer who has no idea of what the program would do for him. Are you saying those who are working the steps do the same? Walk into a bar and decide whether to drink or not that day and postpone it to another day? If thats what you are saying, you have no idea what I am talking about. Lets leave it there.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

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May I wish you another 24 hours.

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Spirit Flower
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

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Stepchild wrote:Where is that pamphlet from? I've never seen it....It's frightening.
Why do you say "frightening?"
...a score card reading zero...

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by Stepchild »

Spirit Flower wrote:
Stepchild wrote:Where is that pamphlet from? I've never seen it....It's frightening.
Why do you say "frightening?"
I think that is explained pretty well in the posts above. It goes against everything the basic text of the Big Book tells us. Misinformation...Not only frightening....It can be deadly.

D'oh
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by D'oh »

leejosepho wrote:The so-called "24-Hour Plan" cannot be found anywhere within our Basic Text (Preface through page 164) because, and as just about any real alcoholic who has ever tried it would almost certainly already know: Daily abstinence from ethyl alcohol cannot produce permanent recovery from chronic alcoholism where "We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It [no longer exists] for us." (page 85)
.
Also on page 85. It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. WE ARE NOT CURED OF ALCOHOLISM. WHAT WE HAVE IS A DAILY REPRIEVE CONTINGENT ON THE MAINTENANCE OF OUR SPIRITUAL CONDITION. EVERY DAY IS A DAY WHEN (yes you will read this right) "WE MUST" CARRY THE VISION OF GOD'S WILL INTO ALL OF OUR ACTIVITIES. "How can I best serve Thee-Thy will (not mine) be done," These are thoughts which "MUST" go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will.

So Daily is 24 hrs, yesterday is gone, tomorrow never comes. So all we have is today.

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leejosepho
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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by leejosepho »

D'oh wrote:Also on page 85...[daily reprieve]...
(shouting redacted)

So Daily is 24 hrs, yesterday is gone, tomorrow never comes. So all we have is today.
I definitely know all the rhetorical arguments used for trying to turn A.A. into a "Just don't take the first drink one-day-at-a-time" program, but that just cannot be done when the facts are faced:

"Once more: The alcoholic at certain times [as possibly during any given 24-hour period] has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither s/he nor any other human being [including no 'group of drunks'] can provide such a defense. His/Her defense must come from a Higher Power." (page 43)

However, nothing in the facts ever diminishes the idea of one-day-at-a-time in relation to spiritual growth away from ever again finding oneself drinking rather than ever assuming, hoping, wishing or trying to become saints overnight...as if not drinking could even help there anyway!

Bottom line? "Just don't take the first drink one-day-at-a-time" is used by many for trying to avoid "ego deflation in depth" (Tiebout) at Step One, and many non-alcoholics in today's A.A. seem to me to be quite proud of having done so. For myself, however, I had taken Step One before ever even hearing of A.A. and then learned the words after I got here:

"We are powerless over alcohol and cannot manage our own lives out of that mess."

From Bill W: "We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

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Re: Dragging my butt to the AA meeting

Post by Lali »

Who put that pamphlet out? Are the pamphlets AA General Service conference-approved literature?

In order to avoid confusion, when any literature, including pamphlets, contradicts the Big Book, I go with what the Big Book says.
Step 1: I can't
Step 2: He can
Step 3: I think I'll let him

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